Yksin intro

[yksin]

Greetings, all. I come here by way of becoming involved in editing the Wikipedia article called Battle of Washita River en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Washita_River, which has been the subject of much edit warring. (Those of you who check the related discussion pages at Wikipedia will probably find a familiar figure there, not to mention a familiar communication style.) As a result, from knowing next to nil about Washita other than vague memories of reading about it in Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee years & years ago, & seeing it depicted in the film verion of ''Little Big Man," I'm now on my way to becoming pretty expert on it.

My knowledge of LBH is far less. I grew up in Montana & it's part of the state mythography, of course, plus I read a lot about the Indian Wars when I was in junior high & high school. It's this Washita stuff that has led to a renewal of interest in the history of the Indian wars, & probably will lead to additional edits at Wikipedia once we succeed in getting the Washita article up to snuff.

I've looked around the boards here -- there's a lot of knowledgeable people here. I encourage those of you with the time & desire to take part in improving Wikipedia article on the topics you discuss here. If any are interested, I'll be glad to help you get acquainted with the culture & policies & etc. there. Meanwhile, I'll expect to learn from all of you here.

Oh, just so there's no confusion about which pronouns to use with me: I'm female. My username: Yksin is a Finnish work derived from the word for one (yksi), & has connotations of "alone," "single-handedly," "by oneself." But don't let that fool you: although I've got lots of lonerness to me, I do value community too.

Whoa, I'm so used to wiki-markup that it's hard to remember that message board markup is lots different!

Thanks.

-- Yksin

[Tricia]

Yksin--

I've seen the Wikipedia battle--yesterday of all days--and I'm glad to see David continues to litter boards all over the world with his pro-Custer, quasi-erotic mumbo jumbo. Though I don't see Indians as Saints Personified (or the Seventh, for that matter), it does get a bit tiring being labelled as murderers and inhumane barbarians ... takes a toll on one's psychological outlook after a while.

But that said, D has written a book on LBH; it's quite an acheivement for a 23 year-old. Has he sent you one of those beheading photos?

Welcome to the boards; we're a tad more civilised in these parts.

Speaking of which, I've got to get to researching the Washita a whole lot more. That battle seemed such a waste to me ... killing all of those horses with dull sabres ... ugh.

Trish

[Melani]

Hi, Yskin, and welcome. Your profile will enable you to show whatever info you want about yourself, including whether you are male or female. This can be useful in deciphering point of view--before she changed her screen name, I thought Tricia was a guy for several years! ;D

[Diane Merkel]

Welcome, Yksin!

Thank you for your work with Wikipedia. It's a shame that a rotten egg or two can ruin the good work of so many.

Since you've obviously withstood the Wiki-Wars, you should find this a welcoming refuge for learning. Let us know how/if we can help you.

Diane

[yksin]

ricemclean said:

I've seen the Wikipedia battle--yesterday of all days--and I'm glad to see David continues to litter boards all over the world with his pro-Custer, quasi-erotic mumbo jumbo.

It's been quite a ride. Of course Wikipedia has certain standards about no personal attacks, civility, neutral point of view, no original research (which essentially means, base your edits on facts, not on your personal opinion), appropriate use of sources (so for example, don't violate copyright & don't falsify quotes) -- all of which he's violated. And now that it's been soundly proven (& what a lot of time it took to document all of it!), there's finally some movement, & pretty soon we'll start to have a good, balanced article.

But that said, D has written a book on LBH; it's quite an acheivement for a 23 year-old. Has he sent you one of those beheading photos?

Oh no. We've never gotten close enough for him to send me beheading photos. Ugh.

Yeah, knew about his book. He's mentioned it quite frequently in his "I'm a better historian than you are" remarks, but has never laid claim to its title. We figured it out on our own. I've kinda wondered how many of those rave, uniformly high ratings of it on the French Amazon were actually written by him or his brother. On the other hand, when he's not raving, he can be intelligent about what he says. So maybe the book is okay. I don't know French, so I don't know.

Welcome to the boards; we're a tad more civilised in these parts.

Thanks!

Speaking of which, I've got to get to researching the Washita a whole lot more. That battle seemed such a waste to me ... killing all of those horses with dull sabres ... ugh.

The Indians watching them do this were similarly shocked & dismayed. Apparently the only reason they didn't attack then was because they feared for the women & children from Black Kettle's village who had already been taken prisoner.

Then there were the dogs. All due respect to his Custerness, but what kind of idiot brings his greyhound with him on a surprise attack? So there they are, waiting for dawn to come so they can play Garry Owen & start killing Indians, & the greyhound is barking at all the Cheyenne dogs that are barking at them, & they had to strangle it in order to get it to shut up so it didn't wake up Black Kettle's camp prematurely. There were also some other dogs -- foxhounds? -- along that also had to be killed. Not sure if they were Custer's or someone else's, but the greyhound was his.

-- Yksin

[yksin]

melani said:

Hi, Yskin, and welcome. Your profile will enable you to show whatever info you want about yourself, including whether you are male or female. This can be useful in deciphering point of view--before she changed her screen name, I thought Tricia was a guy for several years! ;D

Thanks Melanie! I discovered the profile thing just a moment before I came back & read this.

--Yksin

[yksin]

admin said:

Welcome, Yksin!

Thank you for your work with Wikipedia. It's a shame that a rotten egg or two can ruin the good work of so many.

Since you've obviously withstood the Wiki-Wars, you should find this a welcoming refuge for learning. Let us know how/if we can help you.

Thanks! I've read a bit of the message board before deciding to plunge in & join; it seems like a good place to be.

And re: the rotten eggs -- well, wiki-processes are winning out, & we're on our way to getting the article un-ruined. Stay tuned!

--Yksin

[Montana Bab]

Hi Yksin!

From one Montanan to another, welcome to these boards. Look forward to hearing more friom you. Tell me, in what part of our beloved state were you born ?

Montana born and bred

[Tricia]

Yksin--

I could almost handle David's presentation if he didn't get so damn personal about it--hence, my question concern about the beheading photos. If you didn't agree with his politics, then you were in bed with the Taliban ... and somehow or another, if you don't believe Custer was without fault and his fall came by the hands of a plotting, traitorous collusion of Reno and Benteen, then you're in cahoots with Al-Qaeda ... I still don't get the logic, but, alas, David does ... somehow. And I guess that's what's important, eh?

Okay, the dogs. Custer had a deep emotional attachment to his pets (even the pelican), but he seemed to exhibit a certain practicality in many matters--not unlike the feeling he showed religion and his wife or girlfriend (Mollie Holland): once dead, they were dead (or, out of sight, out of mind--bring on the soiled doves). It's a common consideration here in the South--though I don't know whether Armstrong gained that attitude whilst on Reconstruction duty--you love the beasts until they're no more. I mean, he killed Libbie's horse hunting buffalo and probably a few of his own doing the same thing--animals were service creatures; they lived at the whim of man. In this day and age of "Animal Cops," and felony animal endangerment laws, GAC's attitude might seem callous, but in his age (which is the era we must judge him by)--and even now in these parts--it was typical.

Still, I believe Washita was a tragedy. There are a more than a few Injuns who post at these boards: Realbird is of Sioux decent and lives in the area. My connection to the Washita comes through my godfather who was the last chief of the Osage ... he died when I was 17 and not at all interested in Custer, so you can imagine just how much oral tradition I missed! In fact, in sharing my meagre Washita research, I've interested the Custer living historian into taking a road trip (!!) to the Osage Tribal Museum in Pawhuska, OK, where there are some relics of GAC's Osage scouts from the infamous 1868 battle. He'd never heard of the place before my mention. And gosh, if he really wanted to, he could see the ramble-down superintendent's house where I spent one of the more formative years (my Navajo grandfather was superintendent in the early 60s) of my life (my mom had been hospitalised for a verry extended length of time) Oh. Boy. Like right. All I remember about the place was being stung by the biggest darn bumblebee in the known universe--in fact, the only place I've been bee-stung is in Oklahoma (the second time was in Bartlesville, in 1978, the nearest big town to P)!

A gang of my writer pals and I are planning a trip to the site ... it's but a few hours away from here--just take I-40 west. I've got both Hoig and Greene ... need to research for my second novel. And of course from that battle, we get introduced to Monaseetah and a whole other can of worms--did GAC shoot blanks?

One of my friends lives in Anchorage. She's having a helluva time keeping both moose and grizzlies out of her yard. But she loves the Land of the Midnight Sun--perhaps you'd share some photos of the phenomenon someday?

Welcome again ... and (lowers head, shakes it from side to side) woo ... pig sooie? Ugh! Football season is almost here in the mid-South.

Trish

[Melani]

I keep hoping David will someday settle down and act normal, but then I always have been an optimist. My guess is that he enjoys the attention he gets for being a jerk. I can't imagine that the book is much different from his posts.

[Tricia]

melani said:

I keep hoping David will someday settle down and act normal, but then I always have been an optimist. My guess is that he enjoys the attention he gets for being a jerk. I can't imagine that the book is much different from his posts.

Melani--

Indeed, that is my thought as well. I really think D can add to our discussions, but I think our GAC has him nailed down. His fascination with Custer borders on the unhealthy, psuedo-sexual-erotic. I'm sure he is quite proud of how he *thinks* he defends Custer's reputation on the internet (his mission in life ... wish he'd meet Mrs. Right--that has a tendency to upright even the most errant boat), but when taken to extremes, no obsession is healthy ... especially when one reads another person's "take" on GAC as a touchstone of today's politics.

It's just nuts. I wish he'd finally understand that it WASN'T his Custerphile status that brought him down, but his childish pranks. Come on, David--there are better things to be said than calling fellow posters "idiots" and "traitors." Nothing on this planet is that important--well, maybe nuclear disarmament and global warming. I'll go out on a limb and admit I like David Cornut; he's a great kid. However, I don't like his historical methodology and antics.

--t.

[yksin]

bro9mari9 said:

From one Montanan to another, welcome to these boards. Look forward to hearing more friom you. Tell me, in what part of our beloved state were you born ?

Thanks, Montana Bab! I was born in Whitefish, but only because my hometown of Columbia Falls had no hospital. That's where I grew up, & it's still part of my dreams. My niece and one of my brothers still lives in those parts. Here's a pic of a beaver dam in McDonald Creek in Glacier National Park (for those who don't know Montana, Glacier's maybe an hour drive from my home town), a pic I took on a hike w/ my brother & sister-in-law when I was back home for a visit one November.

[yksin]

ricemclean said:

I could almost handle David's presentation if he didn't get so damn personal about it--hence, my question concern about the beheading photos.

Ah well, my introduction to him was by way of personal attacks he made on another Wikipedia editor, in which he was immediately calling the person "idiot", "monkey", etc. Charming. Then, when I actually got involved in editing the Washita article, it was always, "haven't you read any books about it? are you completely ignorant?" or stuff of that sort. Uh, well, duh... Custer's not my whole life, right, I edit lots of other stuff on Wikipedia too, right? But hey, if I feel need to learn something, I learn it -- so it's pretty easy to shoot holes through his arguments on the Washita nowadays. Or rather, to shoot through the holes (of the big Swiss cheese) that are inherent in his arguments. We've been kinda wondering if he's given up now -- haven't seen him on Wikipedia for several days now, & now he's been pretty much caught out by the well-documented Request for Comments. we put together on him as the next step in dispute resolution over his actions on the Washita article.

Okay, the dogs. Custer had a deep emotional attachment to his pets (even the pelican), but he seemed to exhibit a certain practicality in many matters--not unlike the feeling he showed religion and his wife or girlfriend (Mollie Holland): once dead, they were dead (or, out of sight, out of mind--bring on the soiled doves).

Yeah, that seems to be the way it was, & still is in lots of the world. I'm more a cat person myself, & for me -- they're family. And dog abuse up here is big news. One of the big names in dog mushing got kicked out of the Iditarod for the next few years from getting caught hitting his dogs at one of the checkpoints during the last race.

Still, I believe Washita was a tragedy. There are a more than a few Injuns who post at these boards: Realbird is of Sioux decent and lives in the area. My connection to the Washita comes through my godfather who was the last chief of the Osage ... he died when I was 17 and not at all interested in Custer, so you can imagine just how much oral tradition I missed!

No kidding! I understand completely -- I have no Indian heritage (Finnish on my mom's side, German & English/Irish by way of Canada on my dad's), but I've got a lot of interest in my family history -- too bad I didn't have it when my older family members were still alive.

In fact, in sharing my meagre Washita research, I've interested the Custer living historian into taking a road trip (!!) to the Osage Tribal Museum in Pawhuska, OK, where there are some relics of GAC's Osage scouts from the infamous 1868 battle. He'd never heard of the place before my mention. And gosh, if he really wanted to, he could see the ramble-down superintendent's house where I spent one of the more formative years (my Navajo grandfather was superintendent in the early 60s) ....

Whoa, now there's some heavy connection to the past right there. So really, the Washita is part of your family history, hey?

A gang of my writer pals and I are planning a trip to the site ... it's but a few hours away from here--just take I-40 west. I've got both Hoig and Greene ... need to research for my second novel. And of course from that battle, we get introduced to Monaseetah and a whole other can of worms--did GAC shoot blanks?

Hahaaahaha... maybe he did. Old Colt just wouldn't fire up, eh? Get a copy of Hardorff's book Washita Memories too, there's a whole lot of first hand witness there.

One of my friends lives in Anchorage. She's having a helluva time keeping both moose and grizzlies out of her yard. But she loves the Land of the Midnight Sun--perhaps you'd share some photos of the phenomenon someday?

Grizzlies, huh? she must live on the Hillside or somewhere else along the east side of town. But moose, we get them even deep inside town. Here's our dog wondering about the moose hind end on the other side of the door a couple of winters ago.


Midnight sun -- we're far below the Arctic Circle still, but we do get it very late. The closest I have at this point is a sunset at 10:51 PM in June 2003 in Homer, which is about five hours' drive southwest of Anchorage.


Football? [yaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwn] Lucky for me nobody in my household likes it.

Thanks for the warm welcome!

-- Mel

[elisabeth]

Yksin, what stunning photos. The beaver dam one just took my breath away. Keep 'em coming! And -- welcome aboard.

Have to confess I was quite relieved when I first saw the troubles you were having with Our Mutual Friend on Wikipedia. No fun for you, obviously ... but it was reassuring to find that it wasn't just us who'd had our patience stretched to and beyond its limits.

He has to be credited with one deathless achievement, however; the invention of an entire new school of historical study, namely Tupperware Gossip. Perhaps one day universities will be handing out degrees in it. Hope so!

[Scout]

Welcome yksin. Great photos. Having lived in the northwest for four years I still have a fondness for the place and have a large moose sculpture on my bookcase to remind me.

I agree with you Diane about David. He could be very likable. But he did have a very child-like view of the battle of the LBH and didn't seem to be able to discuss it on any intelligent or reasonable level. I really can't figure out what books he's getting his 'facts' from. Terribly ill-read on the events and circumstances surrounding the battle. I'm really disappointed in him that he caused so much trouble for so many.