Let's Play What If...You Are Benteen

[Son of a Cavalryman]

You are Benteen, you have moved quickly and arrived on the bluffs overlooking the LBH while Reno is still in the timber in the valley below. Also, you just received the second message from Custer carried by Martini to hurry up and bring the packs.

Looking down the valley you can see Reno engaged and holding his own. You know Custer wants you to move on yet you are concerned that Reno has no backup. You can see the Indians massing against Reno. Halting your command, you ride quickly to Weir Point and look north through your field glasses. You can see and hear mounted soldiers of the right wing on Luce Ridge firing volleys south and east toward MTC. You cannot see Custer or the Left wing as they are in MTC approaching the LBH River. You return to your battalion and send a messenger to the pack train commander to move up as quickly as possible. You order the battalion to proceed north down Cedar Coulee with Martini showing the way. As the last of your troopers pass, you look down at Reno again.

Suddenly you see Reno’s command flying in retreat the Indians are hard pressing them and taking their toll. You sit atop your horse and watch in fascinated horror at the carnage below while your orderly curses in anger and frustration. Looking back south you see the first outriders of the pack train coming into view. You need some of the packs for Custer, but you also know that Reno is in danger of being annilhilated. What do you do?

SOACM

[michigander]

also if this scenario was not the one that Benteen faced, i will answer: I would go towards Custer taking three quarters of my men and letting the others to arrange the distribution of ammunitions or help Reno on this matter. As I see the indians are going almost all towards North I would go there to weak their forces with my presence instructing Reno to take his men in order and try to be half rear guard- half reserve. Probably I would have take him from the neck and shouted: what are you doing Sir? We are facing a battle Sir, let's fight as well as possible! Sir, get cool...
crazy that I am, today, maybe, I would be counted through the losses.
However, if I was Benteen, I would have moved quickly when the first message had arrived to me. And maybe I would have joined the bluffs before Reno retreat.
I presented the situation of Benteen to much Generals and officers of the Army, without to specificating I was talking about Little Big Horn and all they answered that they would have not stop with Reno. But followed the orders.
Onte thing I am sure, I wouldn't have waited.

[Son of a Cavalryman]

Michigander;
Okay, you have three companies of cavalry. You are saying you would leave one half of a company (a platoon) of about 20 men to support Reno. Added to the company coming with the pack train, that's about 60 men you will leave behind PLUS the ammunition packs. You don't have them yet. That leaves you with approximately 100 men to push on north with, you cannot wait for Reno to grab his neck, you cannot wait on the pack train, you have to go on. Do you tell the men you leave behind to send the pack train on, or do you tell them to keep the pack train with Reno?

In your solution you continue north with 100 men and no ammunition packs. You halt at the fork where Medicine Tail Coulee goes left and its obvious that a large group of men went that way. Its also obvious that a large group of men went on north to Luce Ridge. Martini indicates that Custer went down MTC toward the river but you hear firing coming from the north.

Now you are starting to take fire from the west as warriors cross the LBH and come up MTC, and from the east where a returning buffalo hunting group (of about 50 warriors) are sniping at you. You cannot see Custer for he has already left the river, you have no idea which way he went, maybe into the village to relieve the pressure from Reno, maybe not. You are starting to take casualties, fwo men are already killed and five others wounded, you will not leave them behind. Which way do you go?

SOACM

[michigander]

Son, did'nt they had each Cavalrymen ammunitions? Benteen's men they had used no one till they met with Reno no?
And why on the bluffs? And if I would choose down stream? However, this game it's not usefull because I am not there and you are not there and you cannot say what indians could have done with a compact column advancing. I simply says that i wouldn't have waited. Wasn't taking the same option Weir? If Weir was Reno what would have happened? If benteen was Reno? And, If Weir was Benteen?
Unfortunately I was not there, and everybody there was himself.

[crzhrs]

First, since I (Benteen) was sent on a mission before Custer gave any orders to Reno, I would have no idea who was fighting Indians in the valley. More than likely it was the entire command. As per my orders, I came quick to Custer's assistance, since I would have no idea that it would be anyone else.

Once I determined that it was not the entire command, but only a part of it, I asked Reno would took place and where Custer was. He had no idea where he went, only saying that he would be supported by Custer but failed to do so. There was mass confusion, many casualties, and men in shock. The immediate concern were the wounded and getting Reno's command back to functioning. Custer, with 5 companies, amounting to roughly 210 men, should be able to handle anything that he may have come across. I did what I was ordered to up to that time.

[michigander]

you disobey orders: he asked for your presence.

[crzhrs]

<you disobey orders: he asked for your presence>

That's a very simplistic answer. Custer had no idea what condition Reno was in. He did not know how many casualties there were, or the shock and confusion that was in place. Benteen came quick, to what he thought was the entire command, since Custer gave Reno his attack order after Benteen went on his scout to the left.

Meanwhile, Custer had no idea where Benteen was, or how far away he was on his scout. If Benteen did not turn back on his own, Martin would never have found him or would Reno have been saved.

Custer made a big assumption that Benteen could be found easily. If Benteen was engaged with Indians, he could not help anyone. Benteen cannot win with some. If he did not turn back, Reno ends up dead. If he does turn back, he gets hung out to dry for not coming to Custer's rescue. Custer made the decision to send Benteen off looking for Indians with no scouts or medical personal . . . not a wise move. Yet expects him to arrive in the "nick of time" to bail out his unwise decisions.

[Son of a Cavalryman]

Michiganer;
Okay you don't want to play, don't play and don't make any more comments.

SOACM

[Son of a Cavalryman]

Crzhrs;
Ignore comments by Michiganer, he is no longer playing, just observing. If he wants to get back in the game he has to answer the questions I already asked him. Now for you.

You do know its not the entire command in the valley, Martini just told you. In fact he gave it to you in writing. You don't have time to wait for Reno to reach you before you must make a decision. Martini has told you it is not Custer in the valley, it is Reno. Respond to the written order, what do you do?

SOACM

[crzhrs]

SOACM:

Still no evidence that Martini told Benteen exactly where Custer was other than "three miles from here" and not telling Benteen about Reno leaves Benteen with no knowledge that Custer had divided the command.

Martini' had seen no fighting with Indians by Custer, let alone Reno. Martini's false info about the Indians "skeddadaling" and "we caught them knapping" gave the impression that everything was under control.

Martini's limited English at that time, may have caused
more confusion than one realizes.

[Son of a Cavalryman]

Crzhrs;
So, do you want to play out the scenario or not? If you do then let me moderate it and we can analyze it afterward. This is the kind of thing the miliary does. Are you interested? I'm not interested in quibbling over minor details at this point. If Benteen simply pointed at the men in the valley and said to Martini "Custer?" And Martini shook his head no, that would be enough. So, like I asked Michiganer, do you want to play?

SOACM

[crzhrs]

All right . . . I'll play (however, with the real info Benteen had, this is only what if)

Benteen sees Reno being routed . . . Custer appears engaged but cannot tell what his situation is. If Benteen further divides his command and sends half to relieve each unit, that may not make any difference and could result in the entire command being defeated. What is known is that Reno is suffering heavy casualties and running in panic. The immediate concern is Reno. Support Reno and and try to reorganize as quickly as possible. Hopefully Custer can manage till then.

[Son of a Cavalryman]

So, basically you would do nothing different at the point I started you than Benteen did? Ergo, the result is the same as what happened in history, no reason to play any further.

SOACM

[michigander]

Son of cavalry man, it's true I don't want to play because I don't see which utility there is in this, but of course, you're free to enjoy the game that you prefere. Finally, don't tell me please if I have or I don't have to add comments, cause this is MY option and the one of each forum member. I see then from your conclusions how much regard you have for yourself and your infallibility. Thousand of excellent scholars and historians have debated for years the faults of one or the other protagonist and you close this thread with your sentence: Ergo, the result is the same as what happened in history, no reason to play any further.
Just because Son of a Cavalry man and Crzhs don't find any fact contrasting the acts of Benteen...
If I will see something that will interest me in this thread I will post comments, once more.

[Son of a Cavalryman]

Whatever...