What became of Little Big Man?

[glenbow]

I am curious as to what became of the Oglala Little Big Man after his involvement in the apprehension and killing of Crazy Horse. Was he chastised by his people because of it, or even possibly promoted by agency officials? Did he ever become a member of the Lakota police at Pine Ridge, and when and where did he die?

[grahamew]

Well, he received a medal for his role in the affair, something which was documented in an issue of Nebraska History a few years back - I believe it's the one he wears in the picture below:




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According to rootsweb (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mikestevens/SURNAMES/i0011466.htm#i11366), he died in 1887

[Dietmar]

He also played a part in the Cheyenne outbreak in 1879, serving as a military scout trying to catch Dull Knife´s and Little Wolf´s people. (see Mari Sandoz and Ricker interviews)

Some sources say that since Little Big Man (who was also called Charging Bear) surrendered in 1877 he was always trying to please the whites and was a treacherous character.

Hardorff states that he had a son named Bad Whirlwind, I think.

[Dietmar]

You always see the same few pictures of Little Big Man: the one above, these two photos following plus the group photos of the 1877 delegation.
Are there any more?




Dietmar

[glenbow]

Thanks for sharing all of this great information. I have also seen these photographs before, and would be very interested in learning of any others. Another question: Was Little Big Man in the camp at Little Bighorn on June 25, 1876?

[kingsleybray]

Dear All:

I'm posting the information on Little Big Man from Mike Stevens' Oglala genealogy website (Tiyospaya: An Oglala Genealogy Resource), searchonsite under Family/Surnames/Yellow Thunder/First Generation. I can't answer for its absolute veracity, but there is a death date and place of burial to be followed up!

Kingsley




1. 1 Yellow Thunder (#11466) birth date unknown.

He married Her Holy Breath. ( Her Holy Breath is #11467.) She became the mother of Little Big Man. Little Big Man was a shirt-wearer in Crazy Horses's band.Just like the great leader Crazy Horse, Little Big Man was known for his sense of drama. In September 1875, during negotiations at Red Cloud Agency regarding the future ownership of the Black Hills, he led a mock charge at the white commissioners by a large group of warriors. Firing their guns and shouting ritual war chants, they badly scared everyone but did no physical damage.

She became the mother of Hannah Mule Tocha Cesli in Dakota Territory, 1840.

He became the father of Little Big Man. Little Big Man was a shirt-wearer in Crazy Horses's band.Just like the great leader Crazy Horse, Little Big Man was known for his sense of drama. In September 1875, during negotiations at Red Cloud Agency regarding the future ownership of the Black Hills, he led a mock charge at the white commissioners by a large group of warriors. Firing their guns and shouting ritual war chants, they badly scared everyone but did no physical damage.

He became the father of Hannah Mule Tocha Cesli in Dakota Territory, 1840.

Yellow Thunder and Her Holy Breath had the following children:

child 2 i. 2 Little Big Man (#11366). Little Big Man was a shirt-wearer in Crazy Horses's band.Just like the great leader Crazy Horse, Little Big Man was known for his sense of drama. In September 1875, during negotiations at Red Cloud Agency regarding the future ownership of the Black Hills, he led a mock charge at the white commissioners by a large group of warriors. Firing their guns and shouting ritual war chants, they badly scared everyone but did no physical damage. He died 1887. His body was interred 1887 in Pine Ridge, Shannon Co., SD., Holy Cross Cemetery.

child + 3 ii. Hannah Mule Tocha Cesli was born 1840.

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[grahamew]

Wasn't there a Charging Bear taken prisoner at Slim Buttes? Not the same man, I assume. I thought he came in with Crazy Horse.

[Dietmar]

Chasing Bear was captured and became a scout for General Crook thereafter. I think he must be another man, too.

In "Cheyenne Autumn" Mari Sandoz wrote that Little Big Man had some Cheyenne relatives.

Aside from the information Kingsley gave us I must have read somewhere that his father was also called Big Man, apparently a nickname.

Finally, Little Big Man was a shirtwearer in Big Road´s band, if Hardorff is right.

Dietmar

[ephriam]

I also cannot verify the information on the website claiming that Little Big Man was the son of Yellow Thunder and that he died in 1887. I have looked but so far have found no confirmation of this.

The only additional information I have is a mention by William Jordan, son of Charles P. Jordan (clerk at the Red Cloud Agency in 1876-77; later a trader on the Rosebud Reservation) that Little Big Man was the brother of Sioux Jim, killed at the Red Cloud Agency in the fall of 1876 by American Horse (who consequently lost his status as a shirtwearer on account of this). Also, General Mackenzie mentioned that Little Big Man was half Oglala and half Cheyenne.

Yes, Little Big Man was present at the Little Bighorn battle. There is a drawing of the battle by him in W. Fletcher Johnson, The Red Record: Life of Sitting Bul and History of the Indian War of 1890-91 p. 114. The location of the original however is not known. Some other of Little Big Man's drawings have survived but they are not related to the battle.

Nearly all of my references to Little Big Man from records at Pine Ridge come from the period 1877 to 1881/82. I will have to look closer, but I am not aware of anything after that. He does not appear in the early Pine Ridge Agency census records for 1886-88. There is a Cheyenne named Little Big Man listed in the 1890 Census (born about 1850; wife Apple, with 3 daughters and 2 sons) but I have not been able to figure out where he came from or what happened to this family in later census records. I have wondered if he moved to another reservation.



Finally, nearly all of the known photographs of Little Big Man are from 1877: the first one posted above is by D. S. Mitchell. There is a second image of him outside his lodge near the Red Cloud Agency. You have all see the delegation images by Charles Bell and Matthew Brady as well. I do not know who took the photograph of him bare chested from the Denver Public Library but would love to know! The only other photograph I know was taken with two of his daughters, about 1878-79 by William R. Godkin (below).



Finally, I am not certain if we can describe him as a "shirt wearer"; most descriptions seem to indicate that he was a leader of a military society but not until 1878, after the Oglala settled on Pine Ridge, does he appear to have become a civil leader.

ephriam

[buffaloman]

Ephriam-

Thank you very much for sharing the Godkin photo of Little Big Man and daughters. Is this in the National Anthropological Archives?

[grahamew]

So the second image you posted was taken after the first?

Could you post the other Mitchell image, please? I'm puzzled by the almost complete change in appearance. He seems to be in an early 20th century US army uniform and he doesn't have long hair any more, yet he does a year later. Unless the man below isn't him. I have to say, notation notwithstanding - and certainly I don't mean to argue with you - but it doesn't look like the man in the Bell photo. He's easily picked out of the delegation photo (see the He Dog thread) yet he's closer to the camera here and it doesn't look like him.

[grahamew]

More on LBM: he wanted to go and bring Big Road back when he left for Canada after Crazy Horse's murder, but as far as I can ascertain, the military wouldn't allow him, fearful that he, too, would join Sitting Bull. I believe he served with the Agency police from 1879.

[Dietmar]

Like Grahame, I´m not convinced that the last photo shows LBM, even though I would love to see another photo of him.
Nevertheless an interesting photograph I haven´t seen before!

[ephriam]

I am working on an article on photographers at the Pine Ridge Agency and so have been very interested in Godkin. I still have not been able to find an exact date for his visit, but I am guessing based on the images that it was about 1878-79. I have been searching through newspapers in the hope of finding a reference to his visit to Pine Ridge.

I intended to only present the Godkin photograph as an image identified as Little Big Man, but as we all know, many portraits are misidentified. I have been studying this image for several years and agree that he does not look like the Little Big Man which appears in the 1877 images. So either it is misidentified or this is another person (such as the Cheyenne Little Big Man that I mentioned from the 1890 Census). Frankly, I don't know. Would love to know what others think.

The image is in a private collection. The largest single collection of Godkin CDVs however are in the National Anthropological Archives collection at the Smithsonian.


ephriam

[Dietmar]

I´m just wondering about George Sword... but that would be too easy, I guess.

I would love to read your article Ephriam, pleace notify us when it gets published!!
Unfortunatly SIRIS shows no digitalized samples of Godkin´s photos

Dietmar