Louis/Louie Sitting Bull

[Grahame Wood]

Following on from Dietmar's identification of the men behind Gall, Crawler, etc in the Low Dog photo thread, I'd like to post some alleged photos of Louie (sic) Sitting Bull. These two are on the excellent Denver Publioc Library site and the inidvidual is identified as Louie Sitting Bull. I've seen him identified elsewhere (but can't remember where...) as Little Assiniboin/Jumping Bull, SB's adopted brother; however, in 'Vestiges of a Proud Nation: The Ogden B. Read Northern Plains Indian Collection' (1986) (edited by Markoe, DeMallie and Hassrick), his name is given as The Man Who Hides Under the Snow, with the colection date of 1881.

Anyone got any information?

[Grahame Wood]

I forgot to add that the subject of the above photo is identified as Sitting Bull's son in DeCost Smith's 'Red Indian Experiences, where it is credited to Goff.

[Grahame Wood]

Next up is an individual identified in the Denver Public Library collection as Lone Sitting Bull - clearly a Barry photo; his studio props are recognisable. In Markoe, DeMallie and Hassrick, however, he is identified as Little Assiniboin.

[Grahame Wood]

Now we have 1926 (?) photos of Louis Sitting Bull; both are by Barry and, indeed, he's in one of them himself. This isn't the same man as in either of the photos above, is it?

If he's the man in the photo Dietmar posted of Low Dog et al, why didn't he surrender with Sitting Bull? Jumping Bull/Little Assiniboin, I believe, DID surrender earlier

[Grahame Wood]

Finally - and bizarrely - here is another photo identified in the Denver collection as Louie Sitting Bull. One of his daughters?

[Dietmar]

Here is the photo of "The last years of Sitting Bull" of the State Historical Society of North Dakota



It is titled "Louis Sitting Bull", but undated. Also pictured in the book is a necklace. "According to McLaughlin family records, this necklace was owned by Sitting Bull´s eldest son, Louis."

I also post again an edit of the 1881 group photo. Maybe this Louis is better to compare now with the other photos.

[Dietmar]

Thomas M. Heski´s book about D.F. Barry ("The Little Shadow Catcher") states that the man in those two 1926 photos is John Sitting Bull. He was photographed while being on tour with Buffalo Bill´s Wild West Show. John was the deaf-mute son/step-son of Sitting Bull. John was mourning at the time the photos were made because his sister Standing Holy had died a few month before and "he was alone in the world with no home to go".

[Grahame Wood]

To confuse matters further, I've recently come across a photo of the Man Who Hides Under the Snow/Louie Sitting Bull labelled as Yellow Dog. Anyone out there who could shed light on this?

[shan]

Grahame,
I have no problem saying that the man in the first 4 photos you posted are one and the same man, look at that thick upper lip, and that's him again in the photo from last days of Sitting Bull.
I know that lips especially get thinner as we age, nontheless, the other man, the one with Barry is someone else, I can't put a name to him, but I have seen him elsewhere.
Shan

[Grahame Wood]

Yup, I agree the guy with Barry isn't the same man. I think the man with the decorated vest probably is the same man as the one with his sleeves rolled up (kind of odd to see - I suspect this is a later photo). Not sure about the man in the horned bonnet. Still begs the question: who is he? Louis Sitting Bull? Little Assiniboin/Jumping Bull? Or someone else?

[Dietmar]

What about the decorated vest in the Barry photos? Don´t you think it is just the same vest in the 1881 group photo?

[Grahame Wood]

Similar but not thwe same. Hair looks different too.

[scrupp]

Can someone tell me if Louis Sitting Bull Louis Pairie Louise Napoleon Mattler are conected.

[ladonna]

SITTING BULL’S PARTY WHEN AT FORT RANDALL

1. SITTING BULL
2. HUNTS IN THE COLD-COUSIN
3. SEEN BY HER NATION-WIFE
4. STAND SACRED-DAUGHTER 4 YEARS OLD
5. CROWFOOT-SON 7 YEARS OLD
6. STOOD BY HIM-SON 15 YEARS OLD

7. FOUR ROBES-WIFE
8. INFANT-DAUGHTER- ONE DAY OLD
9. HER LODGE IN SIGHT-DAUGHTER 5 YEARS OLD
10. BLUE TURTLE: SON 14 YEARS OLD
11. ON THE HILL/NOT AFRAID: SON 3 YEARS OLD
12. RUN AWAY FROM: SON 3 YEARS OLD
13. LOOK WALKING: DAUGHTER 15 YEARS OLD
14. HER MANY HORSE DAUGHTER 18 YEARS OLD
15. LOST WOMAN- MOTHER IN LAW

SITTING BULL HAD FIVE WIVES THOUGH OUT HIS LIFETIME LIGHT HAIR, SNOW ON HER, RED WOMAN, SEEN BY HER NATION AND FOUR ROBES. 12 CHILDREN WERE BORN TO SITTING BULL.

GRANDFATHER OF SITTING BULL-- GRANDMOTHER: UNKNOWN
SON: SITTING BULL: BORN 1799, DIED: 1859
SON: FOUR HORNS: BORN: 1814, DIED 1887
SON: LOOKS FOR HIM IN A TENT: UNKNOWN

FATHER OF SITTING BULL: TATANKA PTAICA: BORN: 1799 DIED; 1859
MOTHER: UMPAN WASTEWIN: DIED 1884
CHILDREN:

SON-SITTING BULL BORN: 1831 DIED:1890
DAUGHTER-WAYAKAWASTEWIN/GOOD FEATHER: BORN: 1825
DAUGHTER- TASINA ZIZI/TWIN WOMAN:

SITTING BULL’S WIVES
1. LIGHT HAIR: MARRIED: 1851 DIED: 1857
DIED IN CHILDBIRTH

2. SNOW ON HER-(ARIKARA WIFE) RETURN TO HER PEOPLE AND REMARRIED AT FORT BERTHOLD RESERVATION.

DAUGHTER: HER MANY HORSE BORN 1863
HER MANY HORSES BORN 1963 DIED ON STANDING ROCK
MARRIED THOMAS FLY MAY 1881 DIED ON STANDING ROCK
CHILDREN:
SON: JOE FLY
SON: FELIX FLY
DAUGHTER: MARGARET FLY
DAUGHTER: SEE WALKING/WALKS LOOKING BORN 1968
DIED 1887 ON THE GRAND RIVER
WALKS LOOKING MARRIED TO ANDREW FOX IN 1885.
ONE SON BORN TO WALKS LOOKING AND ANDREW FOX
NAMED CHASE NEAR


3. RED WOMAN/SCARLET WOMAN MARRIED: 1857 DIED:1865
DIED FROM DISEASE
SON: DIED IN CHILDBIRTH
SON: TAKES THE GUN, BORN 1868
SON: DIED 1877 SON WAS KILLED

4. SEEN BY HER NATION
CHILD: 1887 DIED
STEPSON-WILLIAM SITTING BULL
STEPSON-LEWIS SITTING BULL

5. FOUR ROBES/FOUR TIMES

SON: RUN AWAY FROM BORN 1876 DIED 1879
SON CROWFOOT: BORN 1876 DIED 1890---
SON: 1880
SON: 1880 ANOTHER SET OF TWINS DIED AT BIRTH
CHILD: 1888 DIED AT BIRTH


ADOPTED:
SON- LITTLE SOLDIER
SON-BLUE MOUNTAIN
SON-ONE BULL
The two sons of Seen By The Nation who were claimed by Four Robes, and who became Sitting Bull's stepsons in 1872 were Little Soldier and Blue Mountain. They are said to have taken new, Christian names after his death. They also took his name as a surname, becoming Louis Sitting Bull and William Sitting Bull.

[ladonna]

This man is identified as having been 31 years old in 1898, making him roughly the same age as several of Sitting Bull's children, including Blue Turtle, Defends Himself, Henry, Little Soldier, and Stood by Him.

A headdress and shirt worn by John Sitting Bull are in the collection of the Gene Autry Museum of the American West in Los Angeles.

William Sitting Bull is said to have been having been deaf and dumb, Juti Winchester at the Buffalo Bill Historical Center who confirmed for us that William Sitting Bull was with the Wild West during the 1902 season, also told us that a man named John Sitting Bull was with the show during the 1903-1906 European tour, and that he was hearing impaired.
I believe they are the same person.