American Horse

[jinlian]

Hi Kingsley,

just a little curiosity: do you happen to know why Red Cloud wasn't included in the picture?

Thanks,

[kingsleybray]

Hi jinlian

Now I've reached an age where I can't retrieve facts and sources as well as I could a few years ago, but I'm sure I remember that the delegation was asked to pose outside the Treasury building. Red Cloud expected to be paid and walked away when the money wasn't forthcoming! A man with a very modern awareness of the value of image!

Kingsley

[jinlian]

Thanks, now I've checked on Goodyear's book and he reports this story as well (it appeared on a Washington newspaper which said, among other things, that Red Cloud had asked 25$ for his picture!). Goodyear suggests however that it could have been also that Red Cloud, unsatisfied with the discussions about the Black Hills treaty, refused to be photographed only out of frustration and embitterment.

Thanks again,

Jin

[kingsleybray]

Goodyear it was! I'm glad you found the reference. Not sure about the speculation that he was dissatisfied with the Black Hills agreement issue - he undoubtedly was, but so were most of the other delegates. What I would certainly say is NOT the case is that this proves that Red Cloud was a sell-out, etc. etc. I'm beginning to feel strongly that Red Cloud should be restored to a greater respect than he seems to get from most modern commentators, in print and online

best,

Kingsley

[jinlian]

Hi Kingsley,

I totally agree with you about Red Cloud. Trouble is that in the last decades leaders such as Red Cloud, Spotted Tail and, to some extent, American Horse and Gall have been seen as "acquiescent", "ambitious" in contrast with figures such as Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull (thus said without denying the value of these last two characters). Unfortunately, some people forget that history is not simply B&W...

best,

Jin

[Dietmar]

Kingsley, I´m very glad you helped...

and I can only repeat what both of you, yourself and jinlian, stated.
The people of today often rate Indian leaders as if they were modern day politicians who are only looking for their own merit. But I believe they mostly only try to do what´s best for their people or what they think would be best. That´s why they were chiefs. Some try to fight, some try to arrange with the intruding whites.
These were hard times for them...

Regards

Dietmar

[jinlian]

For those who might have not seen this yet:



Tribal council, Pine Ridge, 1903 - American Horse stands in the middle; Red Cloud is sitting on the right

[jinlian]

Back to American Horse...one of the things I've always wondered about is his position during the works of the 1889 Crook Commission on the Dawes Act. While Hyde (and Larson, obviously following Hyde) speaks about a clamorous turnaround of AH - who had been originally put forward by the other chiefs to speak against the land agreement, J. Olson, in Red Cloud and the Sioux Problem clearly states that American Horse spoke in behalf of the agreement from the very beginning.

I'd like to know if this matter has been cleared out or if additional information about it have been added.

Thanks everybody!

[grahamew]

Thanks for reminding me about the 1875 picture!

[jinlian]

A less known picture of American Horse:



1900, from the Heyn and Matzen collection

[jinlian]

I've finally managed to scan the picture of the 1888 Lakota delegation to Washington. American Horse is marked with number 53; at his left (n.54) is George Sword. N. 39 and 40 are John Grass and Gall. N. 42 is Standing Rock agent McLaughlin.

In the front row, first from left, R.H. Pratt. Second from left is Commissioner for Indian Affairs J. Oberly.

[jinlian]

kingsleybray said:

By the way, American Horse's father - Sitting Bear aka Three Bears - is said to have been the father of the Cheyenne headman Tangle Hair. So were American Horse and Tangle Hair half-brothers?

Hi Kingsley, everyone,

I've been wondering about this point for a while, and recently thought about another possible explaination to both the American Horse - Cheyenne connection and the strange fact of Sitting Bear's importance decreasing more and more along the years. Could it be that American Horse's father (called Sitting Bear in the winter count, but also American Horse as it is stated in Red Cloud's autobiography- by the way, Kingsley, where did you get the info that Sitting Bear was also known as Three Bears?) at one point took a Cheyenne wife and went to live with a Cheyenne band (a thing that would also explain American Horse's statement to Sgs Kenzie as reported in the Ricker book "AH thinks his sister is with the Southern Cheyennes"), thus disapperaring from the Lakota camps? Also, is there a possibility that the Sitting Bear mentioned in the documents was in fact not AH's father, but his own grandfather (something that would also explain the relevance given to this relative by AH both in the Ricker and Eastman reports)?

[jinlian]

Thanks to the courtesy of the editor of the Annals of Wyoming, I've got a copy of mr. Belish's article American Horse (Wasechun -Tashunka) The Man who Killed Fetterman , and it does provide answers to at the least some of the questios raised in the present discussion.

1. About American Horse joining Buffalo Bill's Wild West: he was with the show from April 1886 to February 1887 and visited St.Louis, Dayton, Wheeling, Cumberland, Hagerstown, Frederick City, Washington, Philadelphia, Staten Island.

2. About the discussion on the 1888 land treaty: Belish suggests that American Horse wasn't in fact neither pro nor against the treaty. seeking rather to get more information about every point of the agreement and then, when he was in fact taken in by the idea of private property, he started speaking against its fiscal implications. However, there's some disagreement in AH's role in the 1888 commission talks (Hyde and Olson gave opposite explanations, while Larson provided a third theory which would conciliate the first two), but at this point I'd need to read all the original U.S. Congress document about it.

About AH's parentage: I'm thinking of another theory regarding Sitting Bear but I'm waiting for other material to corroborate it.

In the meanwhile, here's another picture of American Horse which hasn't been posted before:



American Horse is second from left in the sitting row. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to retrieve any info about the year and location; American Horse looks to be in his late fifties.

[apsalooka]

Found another nice image of American Horse in my folder, its from Stevenson El Reno.



Henri

[jinlian]

Hi Henri,

I'd love to have a look at it!

Speaking of pictures, it's most funny that the image chosen for Belish's article is in fact a portrait of American Horse the Cheyenne ...