|
Post by elisabeth on Oct 28, 2007 5:12:50 GMT -6
Was he any good? (I don't mean, as per Strange, did he have superhuman powers in one-on-one combat; just was he any good as an officer.)
Because of his sad fate, he's generally written up as a tragic loss to the 7th -- perfect gentleman -- intellectual giant who astounded the examining board in Washington -- etc. Certainly he did well in the Civil War; though Utley, in his appendix to Life in Custer's Cavalry, points out that his rank of Major came about through a combination of accident and string-pulling rather than stupendous exam results -- he took the exam after getting the appointment.
Barnitz wasn't any too impressed with him, at least in 1867. He accused him of sharing Custer's penchant for overmarching men and horses, bad management, and alerting the Indians for miles around to their presence by excessive use of bugles, camping on hilltops with massive fires blazing, and so on. He'd changed his tune a bit by the summer of 1868, saying: "I do find Major Elliott a very good commanding officer. He has his faults, to be sure, but upon the whole he is an excellent officer, and I like him very well."
This was early on in that summer's campaign, however. As it wore on, General Sully seems to have found him wanting, allegedly blaming his inexperience for the failures of the campaign. And he was sufficiently underwhelmed to join with Sherman and Sheridan in asking for Custer's early return. Sheridan might have pleaded for Custer out of friendship, but the other two would have needed sound military reasons to cut short his suspension -- such as concluding that Elliott simply wasn't up to the job. Benteen claimed he was offered command in Elliott's place, and Elliott was to be given a leave of absence; not a ringing endorsement of his performance, if true.
I gather Sandy Barnard has a book on him due out next year, which should shed a lot more light. But in the meantime, do we have any other clues as to his character and abilities?
|
|
|
Post by conz on Oct 30, 2007 12:03:29 GMT -6
Klockner writes:
"Custer's adulatory endorsement praising Elliot as a 'natural soldier,' won him an appointment as Major, filling the remaining staff vacancy in the Seventh Regiment on March 7, 1867."
"Elliot was a popular, courageous and capable officer, and his zeal and dedication won him praise from his superiors."
"Sully, under sharp criticism himself labeled the young Major somewhat inexperienced, attempting to shift the blame for his own shortcomings and lack of success on the expedition."
Clair
|
|
|
Post by elisabeth on Oct 30, 2007 12:35:35 GMT -6
Mmmm.
Elliott himself claimed (in a private letter to Theodore Davis) to regard Sully as an amiable old fellow, and didn't want his feelings hurt; so presumably at that point -- I'd have to check the date -- he didn't have any reason to believe Sully was briefing against him.
Even so, and even given Sheridan's partiality for Custer, Sheridan wasn't an idiot; there had to be sufficient reason for Elliott to be represented as not good enough to handle the rest of the campaign ... He must have shown failings at one point or another. This is such an under-reported campaign that it's very hard to know exactly what went on. Sarf's dissertation seems to be about the most in-depth study of it, but so far (which isn't very far in my reading) I haven't found any glaring signs of Elliott's insufficiency. Mostly, the failures seem to be Sully's. It would be good to know, though ...
There seem to be no indications that Elliott was resentful of Custer's reinstatement -- yet it must have been a blow. It'd be nice if more of his private letters turned up somewhere. And those of others present at the time, of course ...
|
|
|
Post by doyle1876 on Nov 2, 2007 17:41:08 GMT -6
Was the manner in which Elliott died the start of the Custer/Benteen/Reno dislike triangle as has been suggested or were personality clashes between these three always inevitable?
|
|
|
Post by harpskiddie on Nov 2, 2007 17:55:22 GMT -6
Benteen claimed that his dislike of Custer arose from their first meeting, when Custer "paraded his never lost a gun...." order and belittled James Wilson, one of Benteen's beloved former commanders. The Elliot Affair [the aftermath included] seemed to permanently widen the chasm between them.
Reno was not around at the time.
Gordie
|
|
|
Post by elisabeth on Nov 3, 2007 3:31:56 GMT -6
The events of the summer of 1867 didn't help, either. Benteen took umbrage at Custer inflicting excessive punishment (head-shaving and the Rogues' March) on a couple of his men for trifling offences. He was also appalled by Custer (a) shooting deserters and (b) abandoning his wounded (one of Benteen's company, incidentally) on his mad dash to see Libbie. By the time Benteen rejoined the bulk of the regiment at Fort Wallace, the place was already abuzz with complaints about the way Custer had treated officers and men on the summer campaign. Factions were fully formed, with plenty of people other than Benteen lined up on the anti-Custer side.
Custer seems to have disliked Benteen on sight, too. In the "Custer Letters at Auction" thread (which I recommend highly, by the way -- there's some explosive stuff in those letters!) there's one letter from Custer to Libbie in late 1868 in which he says he regrets his coldness towards Benteen the previous year, as he now realises he's a sterling chap. So while Libbie pretends the hostility towards Benteen was all on her part, it appears Custer had been exuding a fair bit as well.
Not sure how much Reno and Custer had seen of each other before 1876; not a lot, I think. But probably even a little would be enough for instant mutual distaste. Reno won't have endeared himself to Custer by trying to grab his job in early 1876, nor Custer to Reno by pointedly overturning all his battalion arrangements when he finally returned to Fort Lincoln. Reno must have felt pretty resentful; he'd done all the work, while Custer was swanning around in New York and Washington. Then Custer returns, and Reno's forgotten.
It must have been a very strange atmosphere at FAL while Custer was away at the Belknap hearings. Reno in command, yet the place packed to the gunwales with Custers: Tom, Libbie, Maggie, Boston, Emma & Autie Reed ... I wish we knew more about that period -- the social life, the undercurrents, and so on. There are Boston's letters, but they don't throw much light. There's a Richard Roberts piece in an Arrow and Trooper booklet I've just ordered, which sounds as if it might say more; maybe that'll make the picture clearer.
|
|
|
Post by Scout on Nov 3, 2007 5:48:49 GMT -6
Good points Elisabeth. I think GAC's attitude seemed to grow harsher the older he got. I find it appalling he would shoot deserters when he himself practiced the craft so well. He may have gone overboard living up to his image of the perfect cavalier when he knew he was far from that image. He almost becomes a caricature of himself. He was a perfect target for Benteen who perceived Custer as the embodiment of everything wrong with the army, fools and idiots at the top. Kinda like the U.S. Post office. Benteen strikes me as the type of chap who could never forgive a slight and, in fact, his letters show it. If Custer attempted any type of reconciliation it was probably ignored by old Fred who carried a rather large chip on his shoulders for the army chain of command. Two different personalities rubbing each other the wrong way. And then there's Reno...the third man out.
I don't think this was a unique situation though. Look at Ft. Phil Kearney with Carrington who was having similar problems with Fetterman and others. This was a scenario played out numerous times on the frontier and in other military history.
Yes, it would be interesting to find out more about the period when GAC was away in Washington. All those Custers at FAL holding Reno hostage until the return of the king.
|
|
|
Post by elisabeth on Nov 3, 2007 11:21:21 GMT -6
True re Carrington. I suppose this was inevitable when you had so many men who'd led regiments, brigades etc. in battle, suddenly condemned to being mere captains at the mercy of a despised "superior".
I wonder how much Custer's problem was one of class. He was from humble beginnings; he'd married up; he'd been promoted (really) beyond his experience, as far as the management of men was concerned -- as he showed in Texas. He was obsessed with not "losing caste", hence couldn't unbend towards the men or even his officers. (Benteen, relaxed and confident about his own background, could be as nice as he liked.) No-one, I think, minded people being promoted on their merits; but any sense of someone being "jumped-up" -- taking upon themselves a dignity above their station -- would have rankled with the class-conscious Benteen.
The "reconciliation" Custer seems to have attempted is, of course, not unconnected with his borrowing money from the man ... so one has to consider that the 1868 letter may have been partly intended to persuade Libbie that it was OK to take the loan. Benteen didn't like Libbie much, it's true, but as a loving husband himself he'd certainly not have thought much of a man who left his wife stranded without the means for food, fuel, or anything else. It's a question of "character", really; Benteen thought Custer didn't have any. And I'm not sure he was wrong.
"Return of the king" -- that's great. Yes, I can't wait to see the Roberts account. They say that Libbie forbade him to publish it, which does sound promising ...
|
|
jc
Junior Member
Posts: 60
|
Post by jc on Nov 5, 2007 4:30:26 GMT -6
It's a question of "character", really; Benteen thought Custer didn't have any. And I'm not sure he was wrong. Oh, please. Give me a break. Surely Custer possessed some features and/or traits of moral or ethical quality, although that likelihood seems to be consistently overlooked by the members of this board, or at least by those who post most often. The never-ending fault-finding of Custer that one encounters here is truly reprehensible. jc
|
|
|
Post by Scout on Nov 5, 2007 7:19:35 GMT -6
Ah, jc did we push the wrong button with you? Apparently so. Most of the old guard on this board is well versed in Custer the man. I hate to break the news but he had very human characteristics. Don't perceive our criticisms as some form of dislike of the man. I like everybody connected with the battle but they all have their human faults including Custer. I love old Benteen and boy did he have personal demons. Your comment, "Surely Custer possessed some features and/or traits of moral or ethical quality" sounds like you're not so certain yourself. Anyway old boy this is a discussion forum so jump in and set us straight about our opinions. You're allowed to have one to and we welcome the feedback.
Old Scout
|
|
|
Post by Diane Merkel on Nov 6, 2007 11:00:28 GMT -6
Ditto what Scout said, and I will add that ridicule, sarcasm, and insults don't belong in any discussions here.
|
|
|
Post by crzhrs on Nov 6, 2007 11:33:26 GMT -6
<I will add that ridicule, sarcasm, and insults don't belong in any discussions here>
Now you've gone and burst my balloon!
|
|
|
Post by conz on Nov 6, 2007 11:53:53 GMT -6
<I will add that ridicule, sarcasm, and insults don't belong in any discussions here> Now you've gone and burst my balloon! Now...Diane said that they don't belong...not that they don't occur. <g> She doesn't lie like Benteen always does...oops! ConZ (shaving my head for my indiscipline...)
|
|
|
Post by BrokenSword on Nov 6, 2007 12:09:12 GMT -6
"...ridicule, sarcasm, and insults don't belong in any discussions here. ..."
Yikes! Under the circumstances let me say - fred, gordie et.al, honest-to-God, I didn't mean a word of it.
M P. S. Conz - What does <g> mean? fred asked me to asked because he was embarrassed to..oops..there I go again.
|
|
|
Post by conz on Nov 6, 2007 14:46:32 GMT -6
P. S. Conz - What does <g> mean? fred asked me to asked because he was embarrassed to..oops..there I go again. <g> is the worst ridiculous, sarcastic insult! LOL...if you were cyber-borne before the emoticons propogated the boards, the only way you could show sarcasm or teasing on a comment was to put <grin> behind it. Related to its more evolved cousins, <r,d&g> run, duck, and grin <rotfl> rolling on the floor laughing, and <rotflmao> rolling on the floor, laughing my arse off! Told you I was an antique. Just can't find a good <g> anymore. Emoticons don't do the sarcastic grin justice. ConZ
|
|