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Post by biggordie on Jun 24, 2008 20:34:56 GMT -6
bc:
As it is on everyone else's - speculation that is. Since we don't know where they died, which would help clear up this continuing mystery [at least in the minds of those who want it cleared up - some would hate it if there were no mysteries, no matter how tiny, peripheral and irrelevant, to seize upon].
I have them with their company in my Annotated Rosters.
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 24, 2008 20:24:35 GMT -6
dc:
I thought I'd be able to sneak back, unnoticed, so that I could post outlandish theories and such, and that noone would notice that harpskiddie had signed his posts "Gordie" or that biggordie did likewise, and if they happened to notice that they had the same Email address, they'd write it off to coincidence. Unfortunately, I forgot that you were still lurking hereabouts, and would undoubtedly catch me out.
I haven't had a chance to make up anything too outlandish since my return, however, being caught up in the euphoria of being able to scan my already-made-up stuff into Word, where I have now finished editing and "finalizing" it. I've just finished updating my Source List and Bibliography, and have added several dozen fabricated sources. Of course, nobody will notice, since nobody ever checks sources anyway. Besides which, I intend to publish under my real name [I'll use all three, so that perspicacious readers will know right away that the whole thing is unreliable].
I thought that harpskiddie or biggordie would seem too learned for a book about The fights on the Little Horn. My collected poems did not sell very well under the name biggordie, except in San Francisco, where they appreciate swell poetry and neat monikers.
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 24, 2008 12:15:09 GMT -6
Elisabeth:
A thoughtful and well-reasoned post, for what it's worth [my opinion, that is]. According to Reno, as I recall, his message via McIlhargey was not particularly detailed, although it was certainly informative, and something that Custer was probably hoping to hear: "I have everything in front of me, and they are in strong force," or words to that effect .
This had the happy faculty of informing Custer that a) there was nothing to the south of Reno's crossing, and b) that the warriors were standing to fight, both of which were welcome news to his ears [one would guess]. Had that message been different, he might have responded differently than he did. When Mitchell arrived a few minutes later, he obviously didn't add much to the first message, for Reno had not yet started his down-valley movement when he left. It may be that Mitchell's message was to the effect that "I am now going to advance against the enemy." Or maybe "Where the heck is my support?" [just kidding].
As to messengers and etc., Martin's instructions also included a "report back to me when you [your company] arrive," this from one of the sources, I can't remember which - Camp, Graham or RCOI [and not necessarily a direct quote]. Custer would have had no need for additional messengers, since he had at least one other orderly-trumpeter, or trumpeter-orderly, whichever is the correct usage, in the person of Dose. Martin also stated somewhere that there was another one, from C Company, but he got the name wrong, so he may have been muddled on this point [what else is new?].
According to what I have read regarding Doran's Horsemanship at the Little Bighorn, Custer had messengers falling out of his pockets, and was tripping over them, so he sent them helter-skelter all over the place, which might account for the high numbers of CEFIL survivors.
The referenced cheering did, I believe, take place after M and M would have arrived -well down the bluffs, and just before Martin was sent back to Benteen.
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 24, 2008 11:44:30 GMT -6
Since I am doing reasonably well on my recycled diet, I may have to change my forum name to mediumgordie. When I first joined, I was going to use the name George W. Yates, but something stopped me.............
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 23, 2008 18:42:51 GMT -6
Hunk:
The trip is next year, 2009. I haven't firmed up the dates yet, since I have to correlate two packages and the airline; but it [the trip] will definitely be from the first week in September until the first week of October, since it will last 32 days, or 31, depending upon whether or not one counts cross-Atlantic travel isn't it amazing how a 9 day vacation package winds up being 7 days really?].
For details, see my recent post on Big Gordie's Big Jaunt. If you won't be coming to London, maybe I can come to you. I assume that there is a ferry or rowboat to your island paradise. There is still over a year to go, so I'm reasonably certain that something can be worked out, especially if you're buying the beer!!
Regards,
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 23, 2008 12:38:11 GMT -6
Has anyone else noticed that the shadows on the "Cemetery" camera view have not changed for the past two or three days? There might be a danger of burn-in here, if someone does not take action. I have no idea of who to contact.
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 23, 2008 12:23:09 GMT -6
Without intending to interrupt the continuing saga of the male feet found beached, or docked in one case, or perhaps too high up to have been deposited by the tide, we now return to the original theme of this thread, which was, if you'll recall - BIG GORDIE'S BIG JAUNT.
Now, the BIG JAUNT was originally to be to LBH, and that was postponed until 2010, and was replaced by a BIG JAUNT to the UK and Ireland in 2009. To reduce the confusion over these trips, and to make it easier for the thousands of interested readers, I am going to refer to the UK trip as THE BIG JAUNT, and to the LBH trip as THE BIGGER JAUNT.
Here is the itinerary, subject to change and with no dates established, except that it will begin in early September and end in early October, 2009, for THE BIG JAUNT -
One week and a couple of extra days in LONDON, followed by STRATFORD and COVENTRY, through YORK to EDINBURGH, then on to STRATHPEFFER in the highlands - a side trip to the West Coast, then over the sea to SKYE [where biggordie sings the Skye Boat Song, and is stoned by the locals] and then on to Glasgow [stopping along the way at all the famous spots you can think of].
From Glasgow, it's across to BELFAST, NI and on to SLIGO, ROI, visiting DERRY and the Giant's Causeway on the way. From Sligo, it's on to KNOCK, GALWAY, across the Burren to the Cliffs of Moher, and on to ENNIS. Around the Dingle Peninsula, and on to KILLARNEY. An excursion to The Ring Of Kerry takes up a full day.
From Killarney to BLARNEY, to kiss the Stone, through CORK to TRAMORE, a seaside resort. From Tramore to DUBLIN, with sightseeing along the way. From Dublin to WREXHAM, Wales, then to CARDIFF.
From Cardiff to BATH, England, on to GLASTONBURY, DARTMOOR, WIDDICOMBE and PLYMOUTH [where biggordie is arrested trying to sail away in HMS Victory]. A full day excursion to Cornwall visits ST. MICHAEL's MOUNT, and Land's End, and ST. IVES.
From Plymouth to Brighton, via Stonehenge, SALISBURY and ARUNDEL. Leaving Brighton, it;s off to LONDON again, stopping at LEWES and ROYAL TUNBRIDGE WELLS along the way.
The sights and intermediate stops are too numerous to mention. When I have firmed up the dates, I will post same, and invite all of my two friends from the UK and Ireland to see if we cannot arrange to meet in one or another of the main stopovers [some of which are for two nights].
As to THE BIGGER JAUNT, to LBH in 2010, I'm not sure exactly when or for how long that will last. I will be arranging a private tour which will encompass the Battle of the Rosebud site; a trip down the Rosebud in the footsteps [or hoof marks] of the Seventh and the NDNs, stopping at the various campsites of both, and visiting the Deer Medicine Rocks; a trip up Davis Creek following the trails, with a stop at the Crow's Nest, then down Ash Creek- visiting the main features of the march, including the Morass and the site of the Lone Tipi - to Reno's initial ford; travel across Reno's battlefield and around the Custer battlefield, Reno-Benteen, and etc.
I am going to take this four-day tour and spend some extra days at the Monument - how many, I don't know yet, probably a week or so. Since I can take three other people on this tour at no extra charge, I will be inviting interested parties to express their interest [NOT YET], after I have invited one person specially. Depending upon the response to that invitation, there may still be three spots open. My thought now is to ask for a contribution of 250 bucks from each person who wants to go [this is considerably less than !/4 of the cost. The tour does not include accomodations; but I am sure that we can pool our resources and work out something convenient and cheap*. I still have many, many, details to work out and solidify, and question, so don't overwhelm me with your own queries just yet.
For those of you who ride [horses] and would like to take a horseback tour of the non-NPS portions of the battlefield, in addition to the four-day jaunt, I can arrange that for 120 bucks a pop. I can no longer sit a horse for any length of time.
The prices are in 2008 dollars, and are likely to rise - probably certain to rise is more accurate, so that any dollar amounts shown are "subject to change, LOL." For anyone who might be contemplating a trip to the LBH, and who wants to visit the places of interest I have mentioned, starting to ponder whether or not you might wish to become involved in THE BIGGER JAUNT, will not be out of place, even though it will not transpire for another two years.
As Custer discovered, it never hurts to plan ahead. BUT REMEMBER - NOT YET!!
Gordie
* if it turns out that there are three females, they can all creep into my sleeping bag with me. It's a big bag..................
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Post by biggordie on Jun 23, 2008 0:13:36 GMT -6
The world has become a lesser place with the passing of George Carlin, who brought a little self-awareness to those who paid attention.
He was only 71, and it brings home our own mortality. I keep thinking that I am immortal; but every time someone of about my own age passes on, I stop for a moment, and think - but then I say to myself "Nah."
I'm sure that we all have our favorite Carlin routines - I loved his discussion of football, which had me peeing my pants, and staining the sofa - and mine was his one man radio station:
"H Bombs rain on Moscow and Washington!!! - millions die in nuclear holocaust!!! - these and other stories in a moment; but first a word from our sponsor......"
"Have you tried the new Prest Toothpaste? Surveys at high schools across the country show that although Prest does not prevent or reduce cavities, 47% of the girls got pregnant,,,,,"
"And now over to Al Sleet, the Hippy-dippy weather man:"
"Que pasa, man? I mean, Que whatcha call your pasa, man? The forecast for tonight - Dark!!!............"
"Back to the news - There was a freak accident at Hastings and Cordoba this afternoon, when a Ford pickup, driven by one freak, slammed into a Volkswagen van carrrying four freaks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"
"Last week it was number 120, Today, it's Number One Wth A Bullet, and tomorrow a Golden Oldie. Here's................"
A prayer for all his friends and his family, and for his soul, wherever it might be headed. That place will be better for his arrival, and a helluva lot funnier.
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 22, 2008 23:08:12 GMT -6
I have no idea of whether or not Reno's testimony was tainted as to McIlhargey and Mitchell, but Gerard's testimony [and he had no axe to grind, except perhaps to use AGAINST Reno] would tend to indicate that at least McIlhargey went back, and not in company with Mitchell.
Supposing for the moment that Reno HAD sent them back, that action does not in any way indicate that he knew that Custer had moved north. The timing of these events would indicate that McIlhargey probably reached Custer's column BEFORE it turned north [it might have still been watering in North Fork], and Mitchell would likely have seen the command climbing to the high country.
That Martin failed to mention them is much the same as his not mentioning Knipe, or passing any stragglers on his way to Benteen. It is dispositive of absolutely nothing, since he wasn't asked, and it seems that he only answered what was asked of him.
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 22, 2008 8:57:49 GMT -6
Summer in Vancouver, despite all reports to the contrary, really does not commence until after Canada Day [1 July] and the Glorious Fourth [which conveniently is observed on 4 July]. After about 7 July, we tend to get many more sunny days than otherwise. June is always a crap shoot. I once bet the elevator repairman who serviced our complex that there would be rain on at least half the days in June. I collected my 5 bucks on the 16th or 17th [it was a long time ago].
July and August and the first half of September are our summer, or have been in the past. The way this year's weather is going, all bets are off. We've set cold records, rain records, lack of sunshine records, snowfall records and etc etc and blah blah blah - and this in an area well-known for its rainy winters and springs.
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 21, 2008 16:25:49 GMT -6
Michael:
I have an idea that there might have been a few more C Company men on Custer Hill, since at least one account I have seen states that most of the dead horses on the top of the knoll were C Company sorrels.
Voss is definitely a good case in point, as is Dose, and Butler, Kellogg - and Dr. Lord, for that matter. It's entirely possible, indeed likely to the point of being almost certain, that NONE of us has seen all the accounts that are out there, which is why I keep digging. I am certain that there are more Camp notes to be found, letters and diaries to be discovered, and accounts to be unearthed. Whether or not anything will shed new light on anything insofar as the general overall view of the fights is concerned is another question; but it would be nice to be able to get more of the details. A luxury, I suppose.
I don't really have a list of identified bodies in such a form. I've tended to put the locations in my annotated rosters. My guess is that if I took them out and made a list, it would be similar in number and location to yours.
Regards,
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 20, 2008 20:18:44 GMT -6
Men on Custer Hill:
GA Custer (HQ), TW Custer (C), AE Smith (E), GE Lord (HQ), WV Reily (F) , WW Cooke (HQ), JJ Callahan (HQ), E Driscoll (I), J Parker (I), FF Hughes (L), TS Tweed (L), J Vickory (HQ), H Voss (HQ) [maybe], GW Yates (L), W Teeman (F), G Klein (F), RH Hughes (HQ) [maybe], C McCarthy (L), CH Bischoff (C) [maybe].
This from various sources.
The only bodies on Custer Hill that Thompson identified was that of Doctor Lord, Michael, [as far as I have been able to find - he also commented upon TWC's body], so you might have the wrong guy in mind. There was at least one account stating that men of all five companies were found on Custer Hill, and indeed they were, if you count the officers. I have an idea that a great many more enlisted men were recognized, but that their identifications went unremarked, and this all over the field.
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 20, 2008 16:02:59 GMT -6
It's Summertime, Summertime, Sum, Sum Summertime, Summerti- i- i- i -ime. It's Summerti-i-i-i-ime. It's Summertime!!
In case you haven't guessed, summer begins in the Northern Hemisphere at 1659 PDT, which means you guys in Florida and points east have already enjoyed the change in season which occurred a few minutes ago [hours, if you/re one of my UK friends].
My goodness, the sun peeped out exactly on cue, so that it could be the longest day [not June 6], and the temperature has gone from 20 to 68 in a trice [wait - that was from Celsius to Fahrenheit]. I got excited there for a minute].
In any event it is Summer Solstice, a very holy time for many NDN nations - so HAPPY SUMMER SOLSTICE EVERYONE!!!!!
Gordie
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Post by biggordie on Jun 20, 2008 15:48:22 GMT -6
Hunk:
Some of the guys on the other board are going, but maybe they're happy with things the way they are, or don't care to get involved. You can visit over there to see who they are, and you likely wont be surprised to not have heard from any of them.
As you say, and I believe one of your countrymen once pointed out - in a democracy, people tend to get the government they deserve.
Regards,
Gordie
non-member, and not going.....................
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Post by biggordie on Jun 20, 2008 15:37:57 GMT -6
One poster on another board has kept them with Custer's HQ group; but I agree with Hunk. I have seen no evidence that they were identified anywhere on the field, and I have put them with Keogh's company [which was destroyed in a couple of places - not just the one].
As a peripheral note [not to re-start any great debate], one would have thought that had Custer indeed retained them with him, he would have used one of them, instead of Theodore Goldin, to carry the alleged message to Reno.
Gordie
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