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Post by crzhrs on Apr 8, 2006 14:15:14 GMT -6
We know Benteen received two follow up messages supposedly to keep scouting.
But there does not seem to be any evidence of a messenger to Benteen after Reno's order to charge fleeing Indians.
Shouldn't Custer immediately have sent a message to Benteen telling him large numbers of Indians were spotted running and Reno was going after them and to be on the look out for running Indians?
Better yet . . . return immediately and join the battle plan?
The Martini message was way to late for a "follow-up" message and Custer lost valuable time in recalling Benteen who's command may have made the difference in the battle's outcome.
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Post by custerstillstands on Apr 8, 2006 15:39:07 GMT -6
"But there does not seem to be any evidence of a messenger to Benteen after Reno's order to charge fleeing Indians."
For you, when was Martini's order given ?
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Post by Jim on Apr 8, 2006 15:40:35 GMT -6
No, I think GAC should have given Benteen the "LEAD" and sent him down the Valley with Reno's orders with the additional companies of M,A and G..........AND sent Reno back to the PRD!!!
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Post by Tricia on Apr 8, 2006 15:46:53 GMT -6
No, I think GAC should have given Benteen the "LEAD" and sent him down the Valley with Reno's orders with the additional companies of M,A and G..........AND sent Reno back to the PRD!!! Jim-- In agreement with your hypothetics. The man survived the Trans-Mississippi theatre. Enough said. Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by Jim on Apr 8, 2006 15:51:57 GMT -6
Leyton,
Let's begin singing "DIXIE" together!!! As Harey Carey would say, "A...One....A....Two....A....Three....."!?!?!?
Jim
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Post by Tricia on Apr 8, 2006 15:57:03 GMT -6
Leyton, Let's begin singing "DIXIE" together!!! As Harey Carey would say, "A...One....A....Two....A....Three....."!?!?!? Jim "Oh, I wish I was in the Land of Cotton ..." Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by michigander on Apr 9, 2006 15:01:56 GMT -6
THIS is one mistake of Custer. If he gave the place of Reno to Benteen and viceversa, I'm quite sure something better would have come out from the battle.
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Post by Jim on Apr 9, 2006 17:44:35 GMT -6
I think they would have had a BETTER chance, however, I think the number of Indians and what they were fighting for would not have made a difference in the outcome. EXCEPT maybe less casualties and more survisors for the 7th.
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 10, 2006 6:58:51 GMT -6
Martini's order was given long after Custer ordered Reno to charge fleeing Indians . . . The fleeing Indians seen was probably from the Lone Tepee site. So it was much later that Custer sent Martini back with the message to Benteen. Not sure of the time but it must have been considerable.
I feel Custer should have sent an immediate message to Benteen telling him of what Custer had now planned. And for Benteen to either watch for running Indians or to return to the command now. It may have changed the entire outcome of the battle.
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Post by mcaryf on Apr 10, 2006 7:42:14 GMT -6
To be fair to Custer, he sent the recall to Benteen as soon as he had determined that the village in the valley was huge and big enough to need all his men and that the main direction of apparent flight was to the North.
The fact that Reno was persuing a stray bunch of Indians earlier was not really sufficient reason to recall Benteen.
Now it is another question altogether as to whether Benteen should have been detached in the first place given that the trail they were already following seemed big enough for most purposes.
Regards
Mike
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 10, 2006 8:24:34 GMT -6
Custer's decision to attack was based on the fact that Indians were seen fleeing. He had already made up his mind that he would not wait till the 26th, but to make a day light attack on the village.
Sending Benteen off to scout may have been a good decision but once Custer made attack plans and ordered Reno to bring the fleeing Indians to battle, he should have recalled Benteen or at least inform him of running Indians and the battle plan.
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Post by Jim on Apr 10, 2006 9:17:30 GMT -6
Why did GAC send 3 companies on the Benteen scout? Couldn't he have accomplished this reconaissance with one company and a few Crow scouts? An extra 2 companies with either Reno or Gac would have been helpful!
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 10, 2006 9:27:41 GMT -6
Jim:
I have always wondered about sending Benteen and 125+ men on a scout. Benteen had no idea about the lay of the land or where he was even going.
I think the Crows would have been ideal, along with an officer and 1 company. The Crows would have known exactly where to go and areas where the Sioux would be camping or even escaping. They would have been far quicker to find any signs of a village or running Indians.
Instead, Custer commits 125+ men on a scout that turned up nothing and kept Benteen out of action until it was to late to assist any one.
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Gumby
Full Member
Posts: 202
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Post by Gumby on Apr 10, 2006 11:27:40 GMT -6
I believe he sent three companies on the scout because he wanted to make sure that they had enough men to pitch into any small village they "might" have found.
Martin wasn't sent back until Custer had reached MTC. Benteen should have been sent for after Reno sent the two messengers to Custer that "Everything is before me." Custer then knew that the village was to the north, not the south. Kanipe is a question mark because there is a question as to whether he had deserted or not. I don't think he did. Even still, Custer had reached the bluffs by the time Kanipe went back. Benteen should have been sent for earlier. His instructions should have ben more explicit as well. When Benteen reached the river he had no way of knowing who was across the river fighting. Had he not been waved up toward the bluff by a Crow scout, he was planning to move across the river to help what turned out to be the stragglers from Reno's retreat. Had he done so more possibilities arise.
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 10, 2006 11:39:15 GMT -6
One of the problems with Custers "orders" for Benteen to scout to the left is that no one other than Custer and Benteen were involved.
That is hard to believe. Were there no one around or near them when the orders was given?
Benteen relayed instructions to Gibson about what he should be doing while on the scout, which may give us an idea of what transpired between GAC & Benteen . . . but were they the full orders?
All we have is Benteen's statements.
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