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Post by quincannon on Jun 2, 2015 15:30:59 GMT -6
Beth: I am not kidding one bit here, not one bit. We had one that took delight in inflicting physical pain on herself.
Today she would not only have not made it past prescreening, but thrown in the nut house. The really funny thing is when I and perhaps you and others tell these tales from the experienced past, people think we are making them up. They cannot relate.
I will tell you this though, all in all I would not trade it for anything. It gave you the fundamentals with which to build on. Sometimes they literally beat those fundamentals into you but you did get them.
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Post by Beth on Jun 2, 2015 15:55:35 GMT -6
Beth: I am not kidding one bit here, not one bit. We had one that took delight in inflicting physical pain on herself. Today she would not only have not made it past prescreening, but thrown in the nut house. The really funny thing is when I and perhaps you and others tell these tales from the experienced past, people think we are making them up. They cannot relate. I will tell you this though, all in all I would not trade it for anything. It gave you the fundamentals with which to build on. Sometimes they literally beat those fundamentals into you but you did get them. Like people who wear a hair shirt and whip themselves as a sign of devotion? or just a self cutter? I'm not sure sometimes if there is a difference though. Sister Mary Sacred Heart did beat those fundamentals in with a wire hanger--seriously. A lot of those ladies should never have been around children. And I agree that having that Catholic school education did help back then. I don't know if it would have the same effect today though. I switched to public school at the start of Junior High School (7th grade) because IC only went to 8th grade after most of the school was destroyed in a tornado. I decided I would rather blend in when all the town elementary students were coming together in Junior High than wait 2 years --even though the rest of my classmates stayed at IC. Teachers told me privately that they could tell I came from IC and not the other schools.
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Post by dave on Jun 2, 2015 16:15:15 GMT -6
I realize this is a serious discussion for both Beth and QC. I grew up in Oxford from age 11 and there were maybe 20 families that were Catholic, so I had little contact with the priest and saw no nuns. I had seen the movie "The Bell's of St Mary's" and had little else to compare nuns to so I thought little of Catholic school with priests and Nuns. Then in the early 2000's I saw the movie "The Magdalene Sisters" which left me reeling. How could religious people treat children like that. I then started paying attention to all the various priest scandals and realized I was so naive. Regards Dave
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Post by quincannon on Jun 2, 2015 16:31:04 GMT -6
Everyone thought of all priests as Bing Crosby and all nuns as Ingrid Bergman. They wanted, and by they I mean the parents, wanted it to be so. It was not so, and I want to state emphatically again there were some very good people I ran into in both those professions. A lot more than the bad.
Realistically though, it was a place for the socially perverted, unadjusted, and un-adjustable, to hide, and they knew, knew mind you that if push ever came to shove, and it was the child's word, against the word of the priest or nun, the priest or nun was going to be believed every time.
Sad as it is, no tragic as it is to say, perhaps these near term past incidents of misconduct by people in position of great responsibility is a left handed blessing, in that these issues have been brought out, and I am talking about everything here from sheer brutality to molestation, and these people are seen as deviant humans and not plaster saints.
And yes it is a very serious issue with me. I can still joke about it somewhat, but I could also shoot a molester with no remorse whatsoever, and be more than willing to take any punishment dished out.
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Post by dave on Jun 2, 2015 16:45:34 GMT -6
QC I swear it seems like every week there is the discovery of another teacher, betraying their trust with children/students, being charged with explicit sexual conduct. There are as many female teachers as males! What is this country coming too? Regards Dave
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Post by fred on Jun 2, 2015 17:23:21 GMT -6
I am a product of a Catholic school education: high school and college.
In New York, Catholic schools have a reputation as the best schools in the state... always have and probably still do. The high school I went to is considered by some as the best or second best in the state (I consider it # 2 behind Regis, a Jesuit high school in Manhattan) and that includes private prep schools. When I mention where I went to high school, people who know of these things always seem to raise their eyebrows and tell me how good it is. It is unusual for anything less than 100% of its graduates to go on to college and it is considered-- at least by Wikipedia-- as a college "prep" school, even though we don't include "prep" in the name. Every year its test scores are well above state and national averages.
I think my college sort of speaks for itself and since I am involved in the student admissions program I am somewhat privy to the admissions and ratings business, much of which (ratings) is BS. Plus, we keep the process much more personal, prospective students requiring an alumnus interview and a personal application form, not the universal form most colleges use today.
When I see and speak to people, I truly understand and appreciate the value of a good education... and in my eight years in Catholic schools, any sort of abuse was utterly unheard of. The priest and brothers I knew were absolutely, to a man, marvelous individuals who dedicated their lives to their charges and in all the years I went to those schools and subsequent, there has never been a charge leveled at them. Never once.
To me, the only thing worse than bad cops and bad judges, is a bad priest.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by dave on Jun 2, 2015 18:38:52 GMT -6
Adults betraying the trust of innocents is an especially heinous crime. I have no pity on them when put into general prison population. A Shakespeare quote seems appropriate: "There is not only disgrace and dishonour in that,
monster, but an infinite loss." Bring any one to mind? Regards Dave
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Post by Beth on Jun 2, 2015 18:57:26 GMT -6
I realize this is a serious discussion for both Beth and QC. I grew up in Oxford from age 11 and there were maybe 20 families that were Catholic, so I had little contact with the priest and saw no nuns. I had seen the movie "The Bell's of St Mary's" and had little else to compare nuns to so I thought little of Catholic school with priests and Nuns. Then in the early 2000's I saw the movie "The Magdalene Sisters" which left me reeling. How could religious people treat children like that. I then started paying attention to all the various priest scandals and realized I was so naive. Regards Dave Dave my mother and grandparents were of the same mindset. They just could not comprehend that a person who selected a religious life could be so...against everything they stood for. My great grandfather was considered so devote that he actually sat in the confessional with the priest to translate Slovak confessions to local Irish priest. It about killed my grandparents when they were in their 70's and the priest said there was no reason to go to confession each week because they never sinned and were wasting his time. Not going to confession was such a foreign thought to them that my aunt would drive them weekly to a town 30 miles away so they could attend confession.
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Post by chris on Jun 2, 2015 20:26:55 GMT -6
I have 12 years of Catholic education. I have no memory at all of any abuse - the educators were strict but never to the point of mental or physical anguish or scarring. Best, c.
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Post by Beth on Jun 2, 2015 20:51:09 GMT -6
I have 12 years of Catholic education. I have no memory at all of any abuse - the educators were strict but never to the point of mental or physical anguish or scarring. Best, c. I realize that all Catholic educations are created equal. There are some very fine schools out there and some not so hot. The same goes for public school education. The funny thing is that despite all the horror stories I witnessed I wouldn't change anything. Those years are part of me.
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 3, 2015 4:55:17 GMT -6
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Post by tubman13 on Jun 3, 2015 7:26:03 GMT -6
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Post by quincannon on Jun 3, 2015 8:52:41 GMT -6
Chris: Stated thrice. It is not the great majority of the good that is remembered. It is the bad that sticks with you forever.
I would not trade it for anything either. I rate anything I have been able to achieve in life to the strong fundamentals, the blocking and tackling, learned early, that enabled to forward pass of later years. I dropped a lot of those passes, but I caught enough to make a difference.
I also wonder if in not knowing of had something to do with the times. I hope that was not the case, but the revelations of the recent past was a great surprise to a whole lot of people.
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Post by dave on Jun 3, 2015 9:41:03 GMT -6
What happened to the good ole days when people used commonsense in making decisions on individual positions? Administrators using the "company line" instead of using their own judgments on the merits of each case. What a bunch of cowardly morons. Respects Dave How about this headline and story showing how the world is upside down! Regards Dave Colorado school lunch lady fired for giving food to crying children without enough money www.nydailynews.com/news/national/colo-lunch-lady-fired-giving-food-crying-poor-kids-article-1.2244842
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Post by Beth on Jun 3, 2015 10:07:36 GMT -6
What happened to the good ole days when people used commonsense in making decisions on individual positions? Administrators using the "company line" instead of using their own judgments on the merits of each case. What a bunch of cowardly morons. Respects Dave How about this headline and story showing how the world is upside down! Regards Dave Colorado school lunch lady fired for giving food to crying children without enough money www.nydailynews.com/news/national/colo-lunch-lady-fired-giving-food-crying-poor-kids-article-1.2244842Sometimes I feel I am living in an insane world. Beth
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