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Aug 17, 2014 21:36:04 GMT -6
Post by quincannon on Aug 17, 2014 21:36:04 GMT -6
Why should any question of yours be taken as such? I hope you will share your ideas with all of us. I think you will find that all of us have some degree of expertise that we bring to the table, and not necessarily about LBH. All those views add to the picture.
Always keep in mind though that LBH itself was a minor event as these things go. From every aspect of it, especially operationally, and tactically, it was misbegotten small potatoes. What makes it important are twofold 1) For the military it is a case study in what not to do, command climate, and most especially leadership. 2) For the American public it has become a wake up call on how we see ourselves. If it has importance that is where the importance lies.
Now it nears bed time, and I wish you good evening Bluebonnet Lady.
Late PS: Beth in the event you are wondering about the Bluebonnet Lady title I have given you it is not original with me. It is the name of a song written by "Woody" Paul Chrisman of Riders in the Sky, and released as a cut on that groups first album. So "Wipe that Texas Teardrop from your eye". Regardless of where someone is from when they get to Texas they are Texians, and while they may later leave Texas, Texas never leaves them.
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Aug 18, 2014 4:04:19 GMT -6
Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 18, 2014 4:04:19 GMT -6
Sorry Beth I never got round to welcoming you, so I hope you stick around and post to your hearts delight.
If Calhoun is at the head of the advance or retreat (which personally I don’t agree), then what about all the stories that the Indians spoke of, a lot of them say that the soldiers were near the river, some say they never crossed and some say the attempted to but got repulsed, now if this was the case and Custer and his whole outfit of five companies moved north, then this river crossing business must have taken place further north near the Ford D area, because I cannot see Custer getting repulsed at one ford and take all his men to attempt another crossing further north. Because for Calhoun to be the leading element, then the whole lot would have moved on and crossed Custer Ridge.
Ian.
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Aug 18, 2014 6:41:21 GMT -6
Post by AZ Ranger on Aug 18, 2014 6:41:21 GMT -6
I agree Chuck and "consistent with" is something our crime lab gives as a finding when it is not conclusive but it can not be excluded. It does not rise to a criminal standard of conclusive evidence. I think it is hard to determine what the movements were before the resting place of the accurate or not markers. A question certainly can be what did the battlefield look like before terrain modifications. The current entrance had lots of material removed from the battlefield from an area that was never cleared of artifacts. The build of the road bed gives a different impression of the terrain than when Custer was there. It would be nice to see the before and after of the road terrain. It appears to follow the easiest route but at Weir Point how much material was removed.
All of the trooper markers locations appear to be a reaction to Indians crossing the river and using travel corridors known to them but not to the troopers. I think it will be a great tool when Fred's book is finally out and we have something to look at to give his opinion of details in time how they got to the point where they ended up.
I agree that looking at it from a military trained point of view is beneficial. The defeat of these 5 companies does not seem to me to be the following of property military procedures. I think situational awareness plays an important factor here and I believe Custer thought something much different was going on until to late.
Regards
Steve
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Aug 18, 2014 8:21:41 GMT -6
Post by quincannon on Aug 18, 2014 8:21:41 GMT -6
Steve: A number of years ago, Colonel Charles MacDonald did a film for CMH outlining the positions of his Company I, 23rd Infantry in the Elsenborn Ridge area of the Bulge. He went from foxhole to foxhole, still visible, and in many instances not only pointed out the hole, but by name the man/men who occupied it. That to me is conclusive evidence. We are not going to get that type of evidence at LBH or most like it. Consistent with is about as good as anyone is going to do. In fairness though, I think many a man has been convicted and sent to stony lonesome, on consistent with evidence, when such evidence helps to form a pattern of events. Just Saturday I was watching 48 hours where there was not one piece of direct evidence that a man killed his wife. I remember the case as it was here in Colorado. They had nothing except a great deal of circumstance and consistency to go on, and the man got 120 years in Canon City, eligible for parole when he was something like 109 years old. Consistent with evidence can build a picture, but cannot stand alone.
I agree that the terrain has changed. It would have to change, road or no road, entrance or no entrance. Nature takes care of those things in a 138 year time frame if nothing else.
I also agree, reluctantly that military terminology does not adequately describe all movements and actions. Indian movements are one area where they cannot be accurately applied. Movements by the military are still fair game for military relevant descriptive words, but some terms must be modified to give more clarity to meaning. Flank attack normally means hitting the side of an enemy line that is engaging your holding force or supporting attack. Since Indians do not fight in lines and regular formations you may have noted that I have recently modified the term to say enemy array engaged with the holding force or supporting attack. It is still not completely right, but I think it is a bit more accurate a description.
The defeat of those five companies can be laid at the feet of lousy leadership. Included in that is a lack of situational awareness. The one thing that is consistent with every battle ever fought is that the winner had superior situational awareness over the loser. Every one.
Last time I spoke to Fred his daughter was in the fine tuning stage of producing those maps for the book. Frankly that it the part of the book I look forward to seeing the most. Maps tells stories that words cannot approach.
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Aug 30, 2014 10:35:44 GMT -6
Post by Beth on Aug 30, 2014 10:35:44 GMT -6
Fred, I started your book Participants in the Battle of the Little Big Horn and can already tell it is going to be a great tool for my studies. I look forward to your next book.
Beth
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Aug 30, 2014 14:55:48 GMT -6
Post by fred on Aug 30, 2014 14:55:48 GMT -6
Fred, I started your book Participants in the Battle of the Little Big Horn and can already tell it is going to be a great tool for my studies. I look forward to your next book. You are way too kind, Beth, but I thank you. If you PM me your address, I will send you an errata sheet for Participants. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by fred on Oct 28, 2014 9:13:28 GMT -6
The Strategy of Defeat at the Little Big Horn, surprisingly, is in the mail. Printed, published, available, all well ahead of schedule.
I hope all of you who have bought it enjoy it as much as I did writing it.
Very best wishes, Fred.
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Oct 28, 2014 10:48:46 GMT -6
Post by Beth on Oct 28, 2014 10:48:46 GMT -6
Is it going to be available in a Kindle version at some time?
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Oct 28, 2014 14:55:28 GMT -6
Post by fred on Oct 28, 2014 14:55:28 GMT -6
Is it going to be available in a Kindle version at some time? Beth, I believe it is already, but if not, the answer is yes, it will be. You will have to check Amazon. Best wishes, Fred.
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Oct 28, 2014 15:08:12 GMT -6
Post by tubman13 on Oct 28, 2014 15:08:12 GMT -6
Amazon says not released yet, even called, said Jan.
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Oct 28, 2014 15:44:27 GMT -6
Post by Beth on Oct 28, 2014 15:44:27 GMT -6
Thanks Fred. I am so looking forward to your book.
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Oct 28, 2014 17:49:50 GMT -6
Post by fred on Oct 28, 2014 17:49:50 GMT -6
Amazon says not released yet, even called, said Jan. Tom, Amazon has no clue. Believe me, it is out. "Zekesgirl" already got hers (last night, no less) and UPS just delivered the half-dozen or so free ones they give me. Best wishes, Fred.
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Oct 29, 2014 2:50:09 GMT -6
Post by tubman13 on Oct 29, 2014 2:50:09 GMT -6
I will toddle off to Barnes and Noble later today and place order, if that is the case.
Regards, Tom
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Oct 29, 2014 3:16:29 GMT -6
Post by tubman13 on Oct 29, 2014 3:16:29 GMT -6
Never mind, just ordered from McFarland, this morning.
Regards, Tom
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Oct 29, 2014 6:11:18 GMT -6
Post by fred on Oct 29, 2014 6:11:18 GMT -6
Tom and Beth, This is what you will receive... My thanks, to you both. Best wishes, Fred.
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