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Post by Tricia on Sept 10, 2006 16:06:04 GMT -6
All--
Just thought it would be a little fun to edit something to the Bravest Horse debates and others. Perhaps it would be interesting to take a little time and discuss--ahhh, shocking!--the Custer Rumor Mill. This stuff can be myths historians--or others--have repeated so many times they've become almost facts, as well as other things--for example, what some movies might have gotten wrong.
To begin: on another thread, on the book boards, Michael Blake's new narrative seems to vilify Benteen's character whilst he accepts Benteen's "rumors" regarding a sexual relationship with Monaseetah.
Here's another one: wasn't there a movie that purported that GAC saw action at Harper's Ferry at the time of John Brown's attempt at a coup?
Any others? Leyton McLean
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kenny
Full Member
Posts: 156
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Post by kenny on Sept 10, 2006 17:38:11 GMT -6
Yes,it has Ronold Reagan in it.I think he play Custer in it.I'm not really sure if he did play Custer.The movie I believe was call Santa Fe Trail.
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Post by douglas on Sept 10, 2006 21:55:27 GMT -6
I believe that was the movie that had Reagan as Custer and Errol Flynn as Jeb Stuart.
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Post by harpskiddie on Sept 10, 2006 22:32:57 GMT -6
And most of the great generals on both sides graduating from the same class!!! Ah well, at least Olivia DeHavilland was in it. Raymond Massey stole the show, however, with his portrayal of John Brown.
Gordie
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Post by elisabeth on Sept 11, 2006 0:57:42 GMT -6
Ah, Raymond Massey ... Wonderful.
Two favourite things movies always get wrong (SOTMS being an honourable exception): (1) all forts are stockaded, regardless of where they are; (2) all cavalry uniforms are complete, regulation, clean, and include yellow neckerchiefs and visible galluses.
As for the myths that turn up in books -- great thread! For a start, there's the "GAC and Libbie had a storybook marriage" one; that's pretty well universal. There's the Comanche-as-sole-survivor one ... though it seems most writers now have learned to qualify that and give poor old Nap a look-in. There's the Nowlan-served-in-the-Papal-Guard one, based on Luce's harmless fantasy, which still turns up occasionally. And -- you knew I'd say this! -- there's the "Keogh was a brutal drunk hated by his men" cliche, started by Dustin, and faithfully passed on, with embellishments, from writer to writer ever since. That one's really useful. Wherever it turns up reproduced without question, it's a warning that the writer has settled for recycling rather than research.
One other, that's been with us ever since 1876: "Martini was the last white man to see Custer alive". It may be true ... but there are two other possible candidates at least, albeit with question-marks over the detail of their stories. There's Peter Thompson, with or without Watson; and there's Korn.
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Post by Hostler on Sept 11, 2006 9:05:17 GMT -6
I grew up believing all First Sergeants were huge Irish guys who went around beating up everybody, and throwing them out of saloons.
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Post by harpskiddie on Sept 11, 2006 20:48:11 GMT -6
Hostler:
And so they were - that's why John Ford always got Victor McGlaglen to portray them. I know you are thinking of She Wore A Yellow Ribbon [the saloon thing]. I just DVD recorded Rio Grande the other day off TCM or ACM or somewhere. I love those movies, even if they are big myth creators.
Elisabeth:
And don't forget the yellow stripes down their britches, and singing merrily as they rode along to meet the Sioux or the Apaches or whoever. And also the fact that nobody ever had to relieve himself, on the trail or in the fort. And that each trooper had his own bunk, whenever a barracks is actually shown. And wonderfully creased and rolled hats. That's what always gets me is the hats - I have been trying for years to get a hat to look like Ben Johnson's, but I can never come close.
And the biggest myth of all: "Everyone found a home in the Army."
Gordie
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Post by rch on Sept 12, 2006 1:42:45 GMT -6
"Sanr Fe Trail" was the movie in which Reagan played Custer. Warner Brothers put Stuart, Custer, Longstreet, Sheridan, and Picket in the same West Point graduating class. It was an interesting device.
Victor McLaglen was born in Kent, and was the son of a Protestant clergyman.
I think John Ford's movies were based more on the turn on the century cavalry that Ford's technical advisor knew.
rch
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Post by elisabeth on Sept 12, 2006 3:46:18 GMT -6
I didn't know that about Victor McLaglen! Superb.
And probably truer to the spirit of the times than many things in the John Ford movies. It's like Will Comstock, the scout: archetypal frontiersman -- yet in reality a nephew of James Fenimore Cooper, the son of a wealthy businessman, and brought up in the home of a judge. Love it.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Sept 12, 2006 7:59:37 GMT -6
Off-topic:
Congratulations, Elisabeth! I don't know how or why I missed that you met another milestone earlier this month.
Thanks for all you have contributed to the boards!
Diane
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Post by elisabeth on Sept 12, 2006 8:16:39 GMT -6
Thank you, Diane! Talking too much again ...
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Post by Hostler on Sept 13, 2006 15:00:20 GMT -6
Let's not overlook "F Troop" with Sgt. O'Rourk and Corporal Agarn. My hero was the bugler who couldn't carry a tune. Reno could have used him in the valley.
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Post by Tricia on Sept 13, 2006 15:41:36 GMT -6
"F Troop" was a bit before my time, but TV Land or Nick ran some episodes a year or two back; it was funny to see Milton Berle playing an Indian chief! I'm sure somebody around here remembers what the character's name was ...
Of course, seeing Anthony Quinn as either Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull was no winner, either. Can't recall the movie, however.
And all of those "Indians" with New York accents!
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Post by harpskiddie on Sept 13, 2006 22:03:17 GMT -6
Anthony Quinn as Crazy Horse in They Died With Their Boots On. And, I believe, as Yellow Hand in Buffalo Bill. And as somebody or other in The Plainsman.
Gordie
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Post by crzhrs on Sept 14, 2006 8:17:37 GMT -6
Anthony Quinn as Zorba the Greek . . . and Kirk Douglas's brother in Lust for Life, and as an Arab in Lawrence of Arabia and a multitude of other "Arab" roles, and he played Ari Onassis in a later movie. Plus countless other "ethnic" parts.
PS: Born in Mexico to a Mexican mother and Irish father.
Not to mention numerous Indian roles . . . a favorite of mine!
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