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Post by shan on Apr 30, 2023 7:40:13 GMT -6
As I was trying to say in my overlong post, we can't trust either figure. Whether we're told that there were ten E company men in and around Deep Ravine, or twenty eight, those are only two observations which were of course subjective, and so the fact that they never mention men from other companies as being amongst them doesen't mean that they weren't there.
Again, there are those amongst you who have a better memory for figures than I do, so you will remember how many men from L, C and I companies were found around LSH, I have a vague idea that it may have been close to twenty, in which case I think we can be sure that a number of those men will have been amongst those who made a run for it during that last break out.
Shan
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Post by johnson1941 on Apr 30, 2023 11:01:50 GMT -6
McDougal
“On returning he [Reno] ordered me to bury Company E, the one I had formerly commanded for 5 years, and to identify the men as far as possible. I found most of them in a ravine.
Q) Here is a ravine marked “H” on the map, state if that is the one?
A) That is where the most of Company E were found to the best of my recollection - about half were in the ravine and the other half on a line outside.”
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Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 30, 2023 12:48:15 GMT -6
I can qoute Fred from one of his early posts,
Doug Scott says Custer, 5 officers, and perhaps 40 EM lay on Custer/Last Stand Hill. 28 names are documented:
14 PVTs 1. PVT Ygnatz Stungewitz (C) 2. PVT Willis B. Wright (C) 3. PVT Anton Dohman (F) 4. PVT Gustav Klein (F) 5. PVT William H. Lerock (F) 6. PVT Werner L. Liemann (F) 7. PVT Edward C. Driscoll (I) 8. PVT Archibald McIlhargey (I) 9. PVT John E. Mitchell (I) 10. PVT John Parker (I) 11. PVT Francis T. Hughes (L) 12. PVT Charles McCarthy (L) 13. PVT Oscar F. Pardee (aka, John Burke) (L) 14. PVT Thomas S. Tweed (L)
2 civilians: 15. Boston Custer (QM) 16. Autie Reed
1 surgeon: 17. Dr. George Lord (HQ) (Marker 17 for Lord is on the SSL)
1 Trumpeter: 18. Henry Voss (HQ)
4 NCOs: 19. SGM William Sharrow (HQ) 20. 1SG Michael Kenney (F) 21. SGT John H. Groesbeck (F) 22. CPL William Teeman (F)
Six officers: 23. GAC (HQ) 24. William Cooke (HQ) 25. Tom Custer (C/HQ) 26. Algernon Smith (E) 27. George Yates (F) 28. William Van W. Reily (F)
Ian
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Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 30, 2023 12:51:44 GMT -6
Again from Fred:
Deep Ravine (8 men from Company E): 1. 1SG Frederick Hohmeyer 2. SGT John S. Ogden 3. CPL George C. Brown 4. CPL Albert H. Meyer 5. PVT Richard Farrell 6. PVT William Huber 7. PVT Andy Knecht 8. PVT William H. Rees
Smith was the only E Company member found of LSH. Few people know this, but before the visitors centre and the National Cemetery were put in place, there were six markers on Cemetery Ridge. I believe all six were E Company men, especially since HQ personnel were accounted for and F Company was likely sent into the basin area. Then we have this:
1SG Ryan (M): 18 or 20 men of E Company. CPT Benteen (H): 22 bodies. CPT Moylan (A): 20-odd bodies of E Company. LT Godfrey (K): 28 men of Smith’s troop. LT Hare: 28 bodies of Smith’s troop in a coulee in skirmish order. SGT Kanipe (C): rode along the edge of a deep gully and counted 28 bodies in the ravine. LT Richard Thompson (6th Infantry): maybe 34 bodies in a gully [Camp]. LT Edward Maguire: drew a map showing 28 bodies in one particular ravine. LT Edward McClernand (2nd Cavalry): 28 bodies of Smith’s troop were found at the lower end of the line in a deep coulee. COL John Gibbon (7th Infantry): 40 or 50 bodies were found in a valley running perpendicular to the river. LT/Dr. Holmes Paulding: 28 bodies found in a deep ravine by the scouts.
These 28 + the 6 = 34. There were 36 enlisted personnel in E Company. We also know only something between 6 and 12 bodies were found between LSH and its ridge line and the ravine. McDougall said there were only a few bodies between the deep gully and where Custer lay. He was sure there were less than twelve and might not have been more than six. I would venture to say the missing 2 were part of those few. That accounts for all of E Company.
Ian
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Post by herosrest on Apr 30, 2023 13:15:26 GMT -6
Ian
I'm trying to read your post on my phone and going blind doing it. However, what I can fathom suggests a death list from Wagner's work and musings. Fred was a hoover of cross referenced fuddle not unlike the genius which Kuhlman dribbled over history.
10 or so of that company were identified. They were buried by collapsing sod onto them. This is solid sourced data and when I manage to regurgitate the source I'll put it forth. I don't actually know if we are in concert or you are round the little bigborn bends among the tipis hidden in the timber, contemplating breakfast and checking your pony herd.
It's an interesting journey hunting this for the stuff I am running into.
What are your plans for Charles III's bash?
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Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 30, 2023 13:35:56 GMT -6
Ian What are your plans for Charles III's bash? We are invited to a 40th birthday over on the Wirrel, making the day of it so I expect a wild do What are you doing down in the smoke. Ian
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Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 30, 2023 13:42:37 GMT -6
Ian I don't actually know if we are in concert or you are round the little bigborn bends among the tipis hidden in the timber, contemplating breakfast and checking your pony herd. We do have different views on some parts of the battle. but that is healthy, but my concern here is helping a poster, like the question about how many died on LSH, I gave them data from someone who put more work into this battle than I. Sorry if the yellow font hard to read mate, but I always use yellow when I qoute someones work. Ian
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Post by herosrest on Apr 30, 2023 15:44:18 GMT -6
Ian I don't actually know if we are in concert or you are round the little bigborn bends among the tipis hidden in the timber, contemplating breakfast and checking your pony herd. We do have different views on some parts of the battle. but that is healthy, but my concern here is helping a poster, like the question about how many died on LSH, I gave them data from someone who put more work into this battle than I. Sorry if the yellow font hard to read mate, but I always use yellow when I qoute someones work. Ian I'd prefer fuschia. Regards - 'FF00FF'
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Post by herosrest on May 1, 2023 7:21:41 GMT -6
I'm going to do something which usually is to the liking of few. Very few, if any... but sw....... Tinified and linked from Postimage.org is some data from 'Where Custer Fell', relevant to the discussion underway but varied to Company C or C Troop. My hunt for a data source is going to be a grind. This is primarily due to trawling more recent but not modern investigations and assessments of the battle which, of course, then extend back to original sources and the participants. In lieu of the elusive item, which I know is out there buried deeply in the bits of books which buffs skim or evade entirely 'cos dammit..... it's so, so boring. What is happeneing though is the meld of new with old and I tell ya... it don't add up. 4+4=7 don't you know? Within context of topic, and the E Troop matters, I'm going to nibble the Company C fight which as understood today is the Cheyenne Bighead story emanating from Marquis, which I believe dates to 1931 and published uniquely in 1933. There are alternate sources which can knit the Company C story and they present difficulties for erstwhile theorists and Lame White Man fatalists. I know this is boring stuff but...... WAKE UP! So, we have an account here www.astonisher.com/archives/museum/bullhump_whitebird_big_horn.html from Dull Knife's son and White Bird. White Bird later scouted for the Army at Miles City/Ft. Keogh and produced some of the battles outstanding imagery. A poster of one drawings adorned my wall for years. Anyway, it shows what can only be the fight along Deep Coulee or whatever you wish to call it. Here is another of his works regenaxe.com/2013/01/14/white-birds-little- which is less well known and, remarkable. We have participant accounts of this part of the battle. In Hammer's Custer in '76, several interviews of Curley clearly tell what happened to the soldiers killed during this fighting. It has long been understood as the start of serious fighting and the prequel, at Greasy Grass Hill, was as far as Edward S. Curtis was prepared to go in publishing his account of the battle. Following, is the interview as stitched together by K. Hammer in his enlightening output, 'Custer in '76', which was surely a labour of love and erstwhile discretion in the face of a number of extreme headaches. From page 161 - 'Curley was born on Rosebud River. Before 1876 I had had experience in three battles with Sioux. . . . What do the Crows call Little Bighorn? Little Bighorn. 2 Also Big Horn River? Big Horn. Before 1876 what was considered eastern boundary of Crow country? Tongue. The Crow country extended to the Tongue. Curley: Shi shi' esh; Half Yellow Face: Ischu shi dish; White Swan: Be da'chish; Hairy Moccasin: Isape eshish; Goes Ahead: Ba suck osh; White Man: Ba chida crush (long u). Curley said Mitch Bouyer and 4 Crows, including himself, lay on rocky hill all forenoon watching the Sioux, and lone tepee in Indian camp was down under them, to left. When soldiers came along they set the tepee on fire. Here they joined Custer. While with Custer did he hear Reno's firing, and where was Curley then? No, after came down off bluff too much excitement and not paying attention to matters in that direction. While Reno's fight was still in progress when he left the bluffs south of Ford B, he heard nothing of it after passing Dry Creek, as the excitement in our front was too great. After Custer had sighted the village and was moving toward it, did Mitch Bouyer say what movement he thought Custer was about to make? Did he think Custer was going to charge the village? Yes, thought Custer would charge. Escape of Hairy Moccasin, Goes Ahead, and White Man Runs Him: These three Crows were with Bouyer and me as far as the bluff at the cut bank just south of Ford B and about 1500 ft. from that ford. While we were here, Custer's command hove in sight, galloping right down the coulee toward the river. Bouyer now said he would cut across and meet it, and he started down off the east slope of the bluff and I with him. Here Hairy Moccasin, Goes Ahead, and White Man Runs Him turned tail and put back up the river following our trail along the bluffs. Hairy Moccasin, White Man, and Goes Ahead got away when Mitch Bouyer went down to see what Custer intended to do, as Custer was coming down Dry Creek.3 Then the 3 Crows shipped out without leave and went south along bluffs. This was the last I saw of them until I met them on the Yellowstone some weeks later, but they have told me that they retreated as far as Sundance Creek, 4 went up the trail we came in on, and then cut a wide circuit over to the vicinity of the mouth of the Little Bighorn where the next day they yelled over to Gibbon's Crows the information of Custer's defeat, of which they saw only the part in which Reno participated. Custer's route according to Curley: Custer left coulee of Dry Creek 900 ft. east of its mouth and struck the river 1,000 ft. downstream from its mouth. It is about 900 ft. further to the first high cut bank. It appeared to Curley here that Custer would charge across into the village, but the west bank was thick with dismounted Sioux, and back in the village hundreds of mounted ones were coming up. Good many soldiers got nearly into water and one got across and was killed in village. He was some noncommissioned officer. The hot fire then impressed Curley with the idea that it would be necessary for Custer to retreat, and he did so, going in a direction downstream and quartering back upon the high ridge. While Custer's firing at the cut bank was in progress I saw no large body of Indians fording, but as soon as we began to retreat they must have swarmed across both above and below us, for we had not proceeded one-third of the way to the ridge before the Sioux were thick upon both our right and left flanks firing into us heavily. I do not know whether or not any one was killed on the way to the ridge but the firing was so heavy that I do not see how the command made the ridge without some loss. Going up from river, Sioux on all sides except front. Mitch Bouyer told me to keep out of the skirmish as much as possible, as they might wish to send me with a dispatch to the other troops. When Custer retreated up from the river, did he stop anywhere to fight? Did not stop but did some firing. When got up to about where fence is they began dismounting, and dismounted men were on flanks of horseholders to protect them. After we made the ridge just west of where Calhoun's marker is placed, we were twice ordered to load and fire together. It occurred to me at the time that this must be some signal. Does not know whether or not it was a signal, but there seemed to be some understanding or system about it. The apparent line of men between C and H Curley says were men who charged Indians. Other Indians charged in behind them and cut them off and most of them were killed. I escaped by riding to the right and front, through dust and powder smoke, pulling over my head a cape made by cutting up blankets, which I had tied to my saddle. 5 The Sioux appeared not to discover my identity. I was dressed in shirt and leggins, about the same as the Sioux, most of whom had their faces and clothing painted in striking colors. As nearly as I can recollect I went straight east or south of east, turning the point of the hill [where Sergeant Butler was found]. As I did this, I passed a dead Sioux who had been killed by the fire of our soldiers on their retreat up from the river. I dismounted quickly and seized his gun 6 and cartridge belt. Further on, and on the north slope of the coulee of Dry Creek, rather out of view from the battle in progress, I caught up with a loose Sioux pony which I led along with me until I came to the steamer.7 After I left the Custer battlefield, I went east and crossed the divide to the Rosebud and went down it to its mouth, where the steamer had ferried us across the Yellowstone before we started up the Rosebud. Here I found no one but found Gibbon's trail up the Yellowstone and followed it. I did not overtake Gibbon, but when I got onto the divide east of the Big Horn, I saw the steamer and went to it at the junction of Little Bighorn and the Big Horn. I arrived at the steamer about the middle of the forenoon of the third day [June 28] having been three nights on the way. Ask him what Crows took news to Terry and how they got there. Went on a wide circle over toward Rosebud. Inquire particularly of Curley whether he met other Crows or troops before he got to steamer and whether he crossed Little Bighorn or Big Horn to west side. Did not meet any one. He was all while on east side of Little Bighorn. The boat was in Big Horn just at mouth of Little Bighorn. Ask Curley if he met troops on way to steamer Far West. No. What route Curley took to steamer and particularly whether he yelled across river to Gibbon's Crows on p.m. June 26 and told of Custer defeat. No. Hairy Moccasin, Goes Ahead, and White Man did this and then went on to Yellowstone. The way Curley communicated the news of the Custer defeat. Within the smaller circle: "soldiers." Between the two circumference lines: "Heap Sioux." After got to boat was sent back to battlefield with a message and then returned to boat. We cut hay bedding for the wounded soldiers on the boat. Curley's story explains why troopers found dead were so mixed up, members of troop C being found on all parts of the field. This was a puzzle to Knipe8 until he heard this story. Curley's story has been both believed and disbelieved. As to the disbelief, I have never heard or seen in print the least particle of reliable evidence to prove that he was not in the beginning of the fight, as he states. His story throughout agrees with other authentic accounts. The story about my going to Custer on the battlefield and trying to persuade him to try to escape after the men were nearly all killed is untrue. I never told it. The fact that I could speak no English and Custer not a word of Crow shows how ridiculous the story is. The familiar story to the effect that Curley went to Custer late in the battle and offered to pilot him out and that Custer disdainfully refused to go is not true. Curley did not talk with General Custer on the battlefield at all, nor at any other time, because he could speak no English. He talked only with Mitch Bouyer, who could interpret Crow. Curley left early in the battle, from the point where Calhoun fell, which was 3/4 mile from where Custer fell. And far from Curley suggesting to Custer a means of escape, it was Tom Custer who suggested to Bouyer and Curley how they could get away, and but for which, and the advice of Bouyer, Curley would probably never have attempted to leave the battlefield in the way he did. Says W. M. Camp is the first man who seemed to take down his interview carefully and ask questions about particular things in a careful and persistent manner. 1. Walter Camp field notes, folder 77, BYU Library.
2. Ask Curley if river at Reno's skirmish line has changed much since 1876. Yes, a good deal. Also same applies north of Ford B.
3. Camp often refers to Medicine Tail Coulee as Dry Creek.
4. (Also Ash Creek, Benteen Creek, and Reno Creek.)
5. Curley did not lose his own horse but took one on way after got away. Picked up a Sioux blanket separately. Curley got out and came south nearly to Dry Creek.
(Ibid.)
6. What kind of a gun did he take from the dead Sioux and what did he do with his own? Took Winchester. Threw his own away.
(Ibid.)
7. When he got to the boat did he have more than one horse, and where did he pick up the extra ones? Yes, had two. Picked up the extra one near Dry, Creek.
(Ibid.)
8. Daniel Knipe, who had carried a message from Custer to McDougall, was with Walter Camp on the battlefield.In July, 1910, lFred Old Horn undertook an interview of Curley for Walter M. Camp. Curley is a Mountain Crow. Agency at Sweetwater. Get as much as I can of his early history. Had he ever fought the Sioux before 1876? Yes I helped to steal some of Sioux horses, and some of our men were killed. In some of these trips we got into tight places and had narrow escapes. Crows called Custer Young Star, Gibbon No Hip, Terry Morning Star. Did ever see photo of Half Yellow Face and where? No. Never saw his photo. Died soon after fight. When Custer separated from Reno he took Mitch Bouyer and 6 Crows. Was Billy Cross or other scout there? No. No scouts but Bouyer and Crows. Why not all six Crows? Custer had told Half Yellow Face and White Swan to go up on hill and take a look around, and instead of doing this they went with Reno. They were afraid and did not want to do as Custer ordered them. This was some little time after we had parted from Reno. These two Crows met Reno's soldiers at Ford A. Bouyer and the Crows were ahead of Custer's command. Custer did not see Reno's fight. Mitch Bouyer and myself did. When Reno fighting no one but Mitch Bouyer with me. Before got to Crow Hill, Bouyer waved hat to Custer from here. Saw Reno fighting from Edgerly peaks. How much of Reno's battle did Curley see? Did he see Reno's retreat? Yes, saw retreat and Bouyer then gave signal to Custer. Custer and Tom Custer returned signal by waving hats, and men cheered. Bouyer probably told Custer Reno had been defeated, for Bouyer did a whole lot of talking to Custer when he joined him and kept talking while they were riding side by side. Get from him a more definite statement as to where 3 Crows left Bouyer. Get it on the ground if possible. Hairy Moccasin, White Man, and Goes Ahead must have left Bouyer before Reno's battle ended because while Reno was retreating they were down near Ford A.2 I therefore think that Curley and Bouyer were on Weir hill alone. See what Goes Ahead says. When he and Bouyer, on Bouyer hill, saw Custer's command up Medicine Tail Coulee, was the command standing still or coming down the coulee? Coming. When he and Bouyer went from bluff down into Medicine Tail Coulee to meet Custer did Custer remain there any length of time? No, kept going right on. Also whether Custer stopped in Medicine Tail coulee any considerable length of time. What he was doing there etc., or why he was waiting? Did not stop. In retreating up from river what was the formation - column or skirmish line? What officer did he see on this retreat and where was he, in front or rear? What was Custer doing down at the river and how long did he wait down there? No time at all. Did he see any soldiers on top of Greasy Grass hill while he was on the flat or at any other time? Yes, 10 or 15 went up and along the ridge, probably guides or flankers. When whole command was at Finley the volleys were fired, and they were fired at the Sioux who were closing in. Curley got away to 4 markers at extreme southeast. While here the Indians were killing soldiers over by Finley, and all soldiers halted here. Sioux were on all sides shooting. Soldiers were dismounted and leading horses and firing at Sioux the best they could. Sioux were all along on Custer Ridge. Mitch Bouyer said, ''You had better leave now for we will all be cleaned out."3 Bouyer told me to ride out through the coulee over to east. Bouyer had just been talking with General Custer and Custer's brother Tom, and then he came and told me this. Little Face (Eeseeuh Kahty) was the Crow who told the tale of the 3 Crows who escaped from battle Little Bighorn, across Big Horn on morning June 26. Look him up and see what the 3 reported of Curley that morning. Yes, White Man, Hairy Moccasin, and Goes Ahead told soldiers at mouth of Little Bighorn that Half Yellow Face, White Swan, and I were dead. And when they got home they told the same story, and the people of us three tortured themselves over the news before they learned that I had escaped. They crossed river and cried and told such a bad news that all the other scouts ran away. The three Crows, in reporting to Bradley's Crows, pretended to be telling of Custer's defeat, when in fact, they had seen only Reno's battle. Had they told the truth as they very well knew it, they would have had to tell of deserting Custer and Bouyer. So they reported Curley "missing and probably killed" and in this way gave no intimation of their own actions. The fact is that the battalion which they had good reason to think was annihilated was safe (except for heavy loss) while the battalion which they reported as lost they knew nothing whatever about, having left it an hour or nearly an hour before it became engaged. By reporting Custer's battalion lost they justified their presence at mouth of Little Bighorn at that time. From where Curley left at the 4 markers, the bearing to coulee up which rode is N81 deg. E or 9 deg. north of east natural bearings. When he was escaping as before, did he see anything of the 5 men of Co. F? No. When I rode out, there were no Sioux in front. I had a cape and cap made of a blanket and threw it over my head and rode out in disguise. The Sioux gave chase, but my horse was too fast, and they did not pursue far and I soon got away from them. Not sure that they knew me to be a Crow. I rode up the coulee to the head of it and over the distant ridge. I had my own gun, a Winchester, and leggin's on. About Fenton Campbell's interpretation concerning Curley getting the Winchester from dead Sioux etc. Soldiers killed this Sioux, and I took his gun and threw mine away. Had fired away all my ammunition. I had only thirty shells, and the soldiers shells would not fit mine; so I took that of the Sioux. What route to steamer? To Tullock to Rosebud and then across to Big Horn. After leaving Custer, went beyond high point close to Tullock's fork and next morning went to Rosebud and back to Big Horn. Did not go to mouth of Rosebud. Started west because my home in that direction. Intended to go to north of Big Horn where I thought there would be a camp (and there was such). Ask again whether he went to the mouth of the Rosebud after leaving Little Bighorn and before he came to the boat. No, went to Rosebud but not to mouth. In Bismarck Tribune July 12, 1876, Grant Marsh reports that Curley came to boat on morning of June 27, and "before Terry had found remains of the Custer command." Says Curley captured 2 horses from Sioux. Says Curley then told (as soon as interpreter could be had) about changing the dress of his hair in getting out of Custer fight. . . . It occurs to me after reading Marsh's story that Curley must have got to the boat on the 27.4 He would not therefore have time to go to mouth of Rosebud but may have started for there and saw the smoke of the steamer from high ground. Ask him if he remembers drawing the two circles to indicate that Custer was surrounded and destroyed. At the steamer I told of Custer's defeat by sticking little sticks in the ground and then sweeping them away with my hand. I also pointed at the sticks and made motions like scalping by pulling at my own hair and groaning, but the soldiers were dull and did not appear to understand me. I also did this on top of a box. He also continually repeated "Absaroke. Absaroke." What did he mean by this? He meant that he was a Crow and that the other scouts had run away and soldiers killed. One of the things Curley did to convey information of who he was was to beat upon his breast and say "Absaroke. Absaroke." Some of the scholarly men about Washington and elsewhere are still studying the archives to find out what Curley meant. What Curley was trying to make them understand was simply: "I am a Crow." It occurred to Curley that if they could . . . be made to know that he was a Crow, they might surmise where he had come from (Custer). When I told Curley in 1910 that the historians were still doubtful as to the translation of the word Absaroke, he had a hearty laugh. New York Herald 7/11/76 col. 2: Capt. E. W. Smith told the correspondent (Lounsberry) that the map of the battlefield drawn by Curley at the steamboat is absolutely correct. See account of an officer of 7th Inf. (evidently) in New York Herald 7/13/76, col. 1, where he says the Crows reported 3 of their number killed. Curley's story to Gen. Roe 3/8/81 (Army and Navy Journal 3/25/1882, p. 761), La Forge interpreter (probably made up a good deal of it or the interview was not on the ground but at Ft. Custer). Curley on June 28 carried a message from Far West to battlefield and saw some of the dead buried. The dead were then partly buried. This was the next day after he got to the steamer. I was then given another message and sent back to steamer6 which was tied up right where ice house of Ft. Custer was afterward built. Soldiers on steamer put grass in steamer to put wounded on. That night carried wounded soldiers down and put on steamer and next morning went to Yellowstone river, and Half Yellow Face and I camped with the soldiers. Late in p.m. we got to Pease bottom where the steamer was. There we were ferried across Yellowstone by steamer, I and my horse were the first to go on board. We had Tom LaForge7 on steamer, a good interpreter. The soldiers knew that I had been with Custer and talked with me much. I have always told the same story but there have been different interpreters. Next morning went to No Hip and among the infantry troops that walked there was an officer with a white mustache. I was barefoot and wished I had a pair of shoes. I had got my moccasins wet and torn them and was in bad shape. I talked to Gibbon and this officer and said: "You enlisted us to fight the Sioux and then went and sold us 6 Crows to Custer for $600. I was told this by Bouyer. I don't like this and I want to go home. You have not used us for the purpose for which we enlisted, and you have got me nearly killed. I want to go home." Gibbon said: "Well, you have nearly lost your life and you may go." Gibbon gave me meat and sugar and hardtack and let me go home. Left the soldiers seven days after the fight and went home. White Swan, who was shot in thigh and wrist stayed at Pease Bottom and doctor with him until his folks came after him. White Swan's horse was hit three times. White Swan was shot in the retreat of the Rees out of bottom. About finding of body of Nathan Short. What does he remember about it? Nothing. Was not there. Did he and [Half Yellow] Face accompany detail that took away bodies of officers in 1877? Get him to tell me something about it. Yes, I was there, but Half Yellow Face not. We looked for Bouyer's body for eight days and never found it. We found his saddle and horse in village but not the body. 2. Camp undoubtedly meant Ford B. See interviews with Goes Ahead, Hairy Moccasin, and White Man Runs Him.
3. The following quotation is from the letter written by W. R. Logan in May 1909 to Walter Camp:
You ask whether the body of Mitch Bouyer, the scout, was ever found, and at what point. I found the body of Mitch Bouyer on the ridge something over half way between where Custer fell and where Reno made his stand on the high butte. The body was lying on the east slope of the ridge, pretty well down towards the bottom of the coulee. In my opinion Mitch had tried to get from the Custer fight over to Reno, and I firmly believe he was carrying a message at the time from Custer to Reno. I know that the general opinion is that Mitch's body was never found, and I doubt very much whether it was ever buried. I remember very distinctly the finding of Mitch's body, as we were warm friends, and when I returned to the camp, I mentioned the fact to my father, and he said he would take steps to see that the body was buried, but . . . I think it was neglected.
(In Walter Camp Collection, box 4, folder 12, BYU Library.)
4. There is this to say about the date of his arrival at the steamer, however. It was before Terry had sent word to steamer that Custer had been defeated, for Curley's information was the first that the steamer had had.
5. The statement that he took message to battlefield on June 28, the day after arriving at steamer, may be an error of interpretation. (Ibid.)
6.The note which I carried up Little Bighorn on June 28 was to Custer bottlefield. From there I took a message to camp on flat where Half Yellow Face and White Swan were and from there took a message to steamer. (Ibid.)
7. The story of Thomas H. LeForge, a white man who lived with the Crow Indians, is told by Thomas Bailey Marquis in Memoirs of A White Crow Indian (Century Co.: New York, 1928).Curley's accounts tell a very different story to that of Bighead, or are they complimentary? Curley told Walter M. Camp how Company C were smashed. Bighead told Marquis. There is a lot more in the way of participant accounts and evidence on the ground and tales of the various burials, and on, and on. There were 17-18 dead on the Finley terrain in 1877. We know that Finley died there. We know that Finkle died near by. What did we learn. Well, the hunting party of Cheyennes returning or travelling to the Buffalo Hunting camp of Sitting Bull's followers, were a band travelling with Little Wolf and arrived after the Custer Fight. Richard WoodenLeg told of this arrival and the trouble it caused. Many more years ago that I care to remember, the two pictures of skirmishlines directed for D.F. Barry in 1886, fascinated me to considerable study. link that linked is this the Finley Finckle fight location. No doubt about it although many will say not, or no, or it's somewhere else. That's that fight, indicated by Gall, to D.F. Barry and NOT E.S. Godfrey; in 1886. The other image is a very interesting story as well but not relevant, yet.
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Post by herosrest on May 1, 2023 8:03:24 GMT -6
A personal note. It bothered me long time, that the 5th US Infantry skirmisher's in the 1886 image, with Capt. Baldwin; were facing north by east and that makes sense in the contextof Curley's account of it. So, the Kate Bighead account needs something of a rethink to fit the realities. I just wonder if any of the old hands recognise the park ranger in my comparisons image? Next time you are at the gate entrance and fence east of Medicine Tail, take a moment, stretch your legs and interpret this stuff. Who was to the northeast or north of the retreating soldiers? According to Curley they were retreating. What does the image show of the terrain? It shows the troops stood on a small ridge. Check the Kate Bighead account! This took place early in the fighting not later or in the middle - it was the beginning of disaster as warriors flocked across the river across from the camps, and swarmed down along the east bank from Weir Peak into Medicine Tail Coulee. McCracken fileCurley Interviews
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