kenny
Full Member
Posts: 156
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Post by kenny on Jun 30, 2007 13:01:19 GMT -6
When Foley shot himself. Was there only a 10 or 12 year old Indian boy still giving chase? After everyone else give up. Who was about to give up himself.
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Post by harpskiddie on Jun 30, 2007 13:23:46 GMT -6
kenny:
You'll have noted that there is some doubt as to whom any of the Indian accounts relate - so it's pretty difficult to specify Foley as one of the subjects or identify him with one particular account. The alleged Flanagan statement is rather ephemeral.
Scout:
I once formed a group with Heath, Finkel and Short [Nathan was an excellent fretless bass man] called Big Daddy Shields and the Survivors. We played around a bit, and gained a certain local notoriety, but never quite hit the big time.
Gordie, I got a friend in Freeman; he sells used cars, you know. He calls me up, twice a year, just to ask me how'd it go? Pretty good, not bad, I can't complain; but actually, everything is just about the same.................................
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Post by Scout on Jul 1, 2007 9:19:07 GMT -6
I'm not one to buy into tall tales and myths...actually I love reading them, but the Foley story might have some truth behind it. A number of Indian accounts tell of an attempted escape and some point to the area Foley's body was found. This is a tale I don't dismiss to lightly. Amos Bad Heart, then 7 years old, claimed to have witnessed it. Gall, or was it Two Moon, also claim to have witnessed it as others did. Not out of the realm of possibility. Foley was almost the "man who got away." But as we know only Finkel, Heath and Short escaped.
Flanagan's claim is questionable though. He was probably just repeating a story he had heard...but then again.
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Post by wild on Jul 1, 2007 11:13:46 GMT -6
All massacres seem to give rise to last man standing tales. At Isandalwana a trooper managed to hole up in a cave with a plentyful supply of ammo and kept the Zulu at bay up to the moment the relief column was spotted when a volley put an end to his gallant stand. Is there not a story about one of Fetterman's boys holding out to the bitter end.And Gereral Gordon heroic death standing alone against the fuzzie woozies And Beau Geste was the last defender of Fort Zinderneuf. Ah great boy's own stuff.
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Post by harpskiddie on Jul 1, 2007 11:15:41 GMT -6
Laugh you little hyena!! Laugh!!!
Gordie, wild will get this reference if nobody else does................................................................
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Post by BrokenSword on Jul 1, 2007 11:28:24 GMT -6
Wild, you're right.
Why do we have no stories of the "Last Brave" to resist at Wounded Knee or Sand Creek? Or of the last determined warrior to charge at Roark's Drift?
Maybe its just a cultural thing among us European types. Or perhaps, the Zulus, Cheyenne and Sioux simply had the gracious good sense to get out while they could.
M
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Post by Dark Cloud on Jul 1, 2007 11:49:34 GMT -6
They may have had similar stories, but no writing for us to know of them. It's an assumption that all oral tales survive, and not one based on much but wishful thinking.
Virtually all 'last stand' stories are derivative of religious sacrifice and applied metaphor and may lose its attraction among nomadic tribes, who'd simply move away as they were accustomed and forget. Are there any heroic tales of the last Sioux being drop kicked out of Minnesota by the Chippewa? Do the Crow have any old tales about the Black Hills and their losing fight for it when the Sioux arrived? Maybe, but when they just moved to the Bighorn Mountains, the loss wasn't so bad and maybe they forgot. People defending cities or static structures are more invested in that sort of thing.
If you were a Cheyenne, there were the Dog Soldier stories about guys nailing themselves to the ground so they could not run and fighting to the end.
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Post by BrokenSword on Jul 1, 2007 12:00:10 GMT -6
All very true DC-
Never-the-less, 'white' culture seems to be somewhat obsessed with the notion. If we do not have such an individual, we seem compelled to create one. Something along the lines of the LBH warriors electing one of their number for the honor of having killed Custer.
M
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Post by wild on Jul 1, 2007 13:31:32 GMT -6
In Gaelic mythology the hero Cú Chulainn defended Ulster single handed and when mortally wounded tied himself [Christ like]upright to a tree so that his enemies might think him still alive and fear to approach.And that story goes back a few thousand years. Laugh you little hyena!! Laugh!!!You got me there.Stg Markoff maybe? ??
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Jul 1, 2007 13:51:14 GMT -6
In Gaelic mythology the hero Cú Chulainn defended Ulster single handed and when mortally wounded tied himself [Christ like]upright to a tree so that his enemies might think him still alive and fear to approach.And that story goes back a few thousand years. That concept of a hero not only being the last standing but continuing to confound his enemies after death is echoed in the Spanish legends attached to Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar - better known as El Cid. Who can forget Charlton Heston's El Cid in the eponymous movie, galloping along the beach strapped upright on his horse as the Moorish invaders retreat before him, supposing him to be still living? Unkind critics remarked that Heston's acting abilities made him a natural to play a stiff.......... ciao, GAC
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Post by harpskiddie on Jul 1, 2007 22:43:15 GMT -6
Wild:
Markoff to the little white-haired dude [in the Gary Cooper etc, film version], whom he had stuck up in a tower. He had ordered the men to laugh, so as to convince the Riffs that the fort was still well-manned [remember that he had the dead Legionnaires propped up with their rifles, on the parapet]. When the resulting laughter was desultory at best, he commanded the little guy to laugh. He had this terribly high-pitched almost giggle/shriek, which caused the rest of the remaining men to burst into gales of laughter.
Markoff, of course, wound up in the role of the dog at the feet of Beau in the viking funeral provided by the brother(s). I thought for sure you would have got that.
Gordie, no, I would not give you false hope, on that strange and mournful day..................
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Post by wild on Jul 2, 2007 1:19:52 GMT -6
Harps Markoff to the little white-haired dude [in the Gary Cooper etc, film version], whom he had stuck up in a tower. Of course it all comes back now.It was the only time I agreed with Markoff,that little excuse for a soldier did sound like a hyena. Saw the film with my dad in 1950 or so.A toss up between that and Shane for the best film ever made yeh? Thanks for the memory.
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Post by BrokenSword on Jul 2, 2007 6:47:29 GMT -6
Wild-
It certainly goes without saying, IMO, that 'Shane' was the greatest western film ever made. At least it is in a close tie with 'The Searchers' for the honor.
m
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jul 2, 2007 7:19:30 GMT -6
Tombstone fits right in there in my opinion.
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Jul 2, 2007 7:42:33 GMT -6
Greatest western film ever made? IMHO it's got to be Sam Peckinpah's 'The Wild Bunch.' I never tire of watching that movie. And whilst I can appreciate why 'Shane' and 'The Searchers' are cited so often, my next greatest western would be another Peckinpah work - 'Ride The High Country,' followed by his 'The Ballad of Cable Hogue'. As to John Wayne's oeuvre, I think he gave a great performance in 'She Wore A Yellow Ribbon,' but his best, in my opinion was in 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance,' and of course he gave a terrific final bow in 'The Shootist.'
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