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Post by shatonska on Jan 20, 2006 9:09:29 GMT -6
we have no santee or sans arc account of the fight , it could be crucial , these 2 tribes were camped in the mt ford area , probabli with some teepees east of the lbh
nobody in Canada or after asked Spotted Eagle about the battle , they were interested only in his fierce look, incredible !
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Post by crzhrs on Jan 20, 2006 9:30:16 GMT -6
Inkpaduta and some of his Santees were involved in the battle. In fact, one of his sons may have had something to with Custers' death, disfigurement, or horse, I not sure exactly what.
There may be bit about it in SOMS.
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Post by shatonska on Jan 20, 2006 10:03:54 GMT -6
we have no first hand santee's accounts , only some clue on inkpaduta's sons regarding custer's horse and maybe his killing but reported by hunpapas peolple from these two tribes could tells us what happened at mt ford , giving true light to Custer's action
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Post by fred on Jan 20, 2006 10:28:55 GMT -6
Shatonska & crzhrs--
Here's all the info I have on the Santees. And you are right, shatonska. It is a shame we have so little from those tribes.
1. John Brughier * A half-breed Santee. * He was “a fugitive from Standing Rock Agency as a result of an outstanding arrest warrant for a murder which took place in December 1875…” [Liddic, Vanishing Victory, p. 171] * Was in the Hunkpapa circle, though his wife denied that he actually took part in the fighting.
2. Gray Earth Track * Reputed to have Custer’s horse Vic after the battle [LBHA]. He may have gotten Vic w/ Sounds The Ground As He Walks.
3. Inkpaduta (aka, Scarlet Top, Red Point, Red Top) (d. 1878 or 1879) * Connell says no one hated the whites as much as Inkpaduta. * Michno also says Inkpaduta led the Santees, but no one specifically says where these people were in relation to the Lakota tribes. * Not clear if he was actually at the battle. * A “Red Top” is listed as a Dakota war chief in the LBHA’s Summer 2001 Research Review.
4. Plenty Of Meat (aka, Plenty Of Trouble) * One of those who spotted Custer at the Divide [LBHA].
5. Sounds The Ground As He Walks (aka, Walks Under The Ground; Noisy Walking) * Son of Inkpaduta (LBHA says he was Inkpaduta’s father, but I think that may be incorrect). * He was at the battle. * LBHA has him listed again under his 2nd name, but this must be an error, especially in light of the fact their comment points out he insisted he was the one who killed the “head man,” i.e., Custer. There may actually be some validity in that statement because of the business about Custer’s horse, Vic. * Michno quotes more than one story about him getting Custer’s horse, Vic. LBHA alludes to this, as well. Maybe he & Gray Earth Track got the horse together.
Sorry I don't have more. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by elisabeth on Jan 20, 2006 10:54:42 GMT -6
Wasn't there also the story that it was Inkpaduta's sons who killed the "last man" -- the officer who "came back from the dead"?
Wonder if there are any living descendants of Santees or Sans Arcs who were at the battle, and if so, what their oral tradition might say ...
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Post by d o harris on Jan 20, 2006 14:05:24 GMT -6
A dispatch dated July 24, 1876 from Capt J. A. Poland at the military station at Standing Rock to headquarters, Dept of Dakota, noted the arrival there on July 21 of seven Sioux who had been engaged at the LBH. Capt Poland got much of their story despite the effort of the agent to keep them silent. Of interest to this thread is that the Sioux stated "...the last man killed was killed by two sons of a Santee Indian, "Red-top" who was the leader in the Minnesota massacre of '62 and '63." This seems to confirm a good deal of Indian testimony concerning the participation of Inkpaduta's sons at the LBH--confirmation on 7/24/76 of statements that weren't made until the 20th century. Several Indians stated one or another of the sons had captured Custer's horse.
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Post by shatonska on Jan 20, 2006 14:10:43 GMT -6
yes , but no direct first hand account from a santee and the most important point for me is the action at mt ford , surely very well watched by santee and sans arcs non -coms if not by warriors who were going to fight reno or searching for their horses not a single account
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Post by weir on Jan 20, 2006 19:04:43 GMT -6
Walt Cross here spoke about accounts of two Santee brothers speaking about what it is believed the Harrington's death. Anyone has the names?
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Post by fred on Jan 20, 2006 20:21:31 GMT -6
West--
Could they be Gray Earth Track & Sounds The Ground As He Walks? Numbers 2 & 5, above?
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by El Crab on Jan 21, 2006 1:05:19 GMT -6
What tribe was Amos Bad Heart Bull from? He drew a pic of what might be Harrington's suicide.
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Post by shatonska on Jan 21, 2006 7:11:37 GMT -6
What tribe was Amos Bad Heart Bull from? He drew a pic of what might be Harrington's suicide. Oglala if i recall well without searching , brother of he dog ?
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Post by fred on Jan 21, 2006 9:48:53 GMT -6
Oglala, indeed, though I don't know about his brother being He Dog. This is what I have about He Dog:
He Dog (Sunka Bloka) (b. near Bear Butte, SD, 1840; d. 1936)
• Interviewed by Walter Camp in 1910. Camp asked him if 28 bodies were in Deep Ravine & he said that was correct. Michno feels this was a typical leading question, one answered in the affirmative only because the Indian thought that was what the interviewer wanted. • Also in the Rosebud fight against Crook, 17Jun76. • Gen. Hugh L. Scott also interviewed He Dog in 1919. He Dog told Scott he first attacked “Custer” near the dry creek (MTC) & that Custer never got near the river. In this interview, He Dog never mentioned any 28 men in a deep ravine. • Listed as a Dakota chief in the LBHA’s Summer 2001 Research Review.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by shatonska on Jan 21, 2006 10:37:59 GMT -6
Oglala, indeed, though I don't know about his brother being He Dog. This is what I have about He Dog: found . i love these interviews "No Water followed them and came to the tipi of Bad Heart Bull and asked to borrow a certain good revolver (Bad Heart Bull was a brother of He Dog and is now dead) which Bad Heart Bull owned." www.wintercount.org/archives/crazyhorse/ch11.txt "My father and No Water's father were related; that was how Bad Heart Bull and I came to be drawn into the quarrel." and "This woman was named Black Buffalo Woman. She was a daughter of Red Cloud's brother. (This makes her a first cousin of He Dog, Bad Heart Bull and their Brothers! in www.wintercount.org/archives/crazyhorse/ch12.txt
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