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Post by nightshepherd on Jun 19, 2005 0:22:37 GMT -6
Just recently I was watching the Fox video on LBH and mention was made of the never recovered remains of the E Troop 7th Cav also the placement of the after battle rubbish, which according to archaeologists would be a gold mine about soldiers on campaign. Is there any good books or films out there on the battlefield archeology of LBH?
Just as a side note will there be anything big for the 130th anniversary??
Cheers Troy(nightshepherd )
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Post by Scout on Jun 19, 2005 5:59:17 GMT -6
Troy,
The best..and maybe the only commercial video on the subject would probably be ''Custer's Last Trooper''.....although there are probably a number of videos shot by various members of the digs...don't know how you'd get your paws on them though. If you locate one let me know where you got it....I'd really like to have one myself.....Maybe the General is listening, he's a great source guide....maybe Diane can tell us also.....have you tried the battlefield bookstore? they might have something there.
There are a number of books on the subject....my favorites are the ones by Sandy Barnard...his ''Digging into Custer's Last Stand'' is excellent and available thru his AST Press or any book store. It has gone thru a number of upgrades thru the years..it started out as a small booklet and has grown into a nice book....I recommend it.
I'm sure the 130th anniversary will be big....I've told myself to be there next year...should be a huge turnout.
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bhist
Full Member
Posts: 221
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Post by bhist on Jun 19, 2005 6:22:18 GMT -6
I haven't seen Fox's video, so my comment here may be incorrect. The dump was found -- at least I spent several days with my pit partner, Ralph Heinz, digging the dump down the hill from Reno-Benteen in May 1989. Yes, they thought it would be a treasure trove of artifacts but it was mostly hard tack box nails and wolf spiders. Dick Harmon stood over us for two days drooling hoping to see a few Colt pistols or broken Springfields. Boy, was he disappointed -- matter-of-fact we all were. Our saving grace was when Dr. C. Vance Haynes pulled the two of us along with Brian Pohanka off the dig line and put us on a special secret mission. We were going to be part of a team to find the missing 28 troopers in Deep Ravine. The team also included Dick Harmon. We used a hand auger and drove that long tube deep into the ground below the water table, brought it up and all of us grabbed handfuls of mud. We felt through the mud feeling for human remains, buttons, bullets, and such. The mud dropped from our fingers began to accumulate in great quantities. While some poor fellow started digging the next round we spent our time talking about the battle, weapons used, and other fun stuff. All of us started to notice Brian playing with the mud piles on the ground. His fingers moved with precision on a delicate mission. Coming from this historians' hands were accurate renditions of human faces -- three-dimensional. Brian was sculpting the missing troopers. Even though we never found the missing troopers those three days in Deep Ravine, Brian kept us entertained with his masterpieces. You can see a photo of this team at Brian Pohanka's tribute -- www.friendslittlebighorn.com/brianpohanka.htmAs far as books -- I have a list of them at www.friendslittlebighorn.com/archeologybooks.htm |
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Post by Timothy Ratliff on Sept 12, 2005 19:09:38 GMT -6
When I was at the battlefield last week, the park rangers said there aren't any plans to excavate Deep Ravine. I highly recommend Gregory Michno's The Mystery of E Troop on the subject-his contention is that the soldiers killed in the ravine really refer to the existing E Troop markers along the road. If there were 28 troopers buried in the ravine, why weren't they marked, why weren't they found subsequently when the battlefield was covered with bones, and why hasn't archaeology turned up a single body there after 129 years? Chapter 5 goes into detail about the digs in that area. His answer is that they never were-and he provides a lot of evidence to back it up. Read it if you get the chance.
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Post by shatonska on Sept 13, 2005 7:15:20 GMT -6
i have just read michno's mistery of E troop , good book , lots of contrasting accounts as usual , bodies were probably carried out of the ravine by 7th infantry men , now are placed on the south skirmish line , but michno's theory is good too, probably bodies were not in deep ravine but in cemetery ravine , maybe searching there it is possible to find those remains that were not carried out and placed in the south skirmish line , many indians accounts say that soldiers were killed in the way from lsh to cemetery ridge , only a couple maybe could jump in deep ravine
how could these men by foot go through hundreds of warriors and reach deep ravine 700 yards from lsh , the first possible way out is the more visible and near cemetery ravine , michno's theory is good
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Post by Scout on Sept 13, 2005 12:06:34 GMT -6
I've read the book but it didn't convince me, although Michno certaintly writes with conviction about his theory, but I know of no one who supports this theory. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Greg's writing but this theory has no validity what so ever and from what I've heard he has sort of backed off from it. Bodies/bones were probably gathered up and buried in the following years. Since there were bodies spread out over such a large area, cleanup/burial details made no special mention of it...but then again they might have just washed out from the area after heavy rain fall. Lot of speculation on this. Another great mystery of the LBH.
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Post by El Crab on Sept 13, 2005 14:17:05 GMT -6
Funny, I keep hearing how Michno "has sort of backed off from" his theory about Cemetery Ravine. But when I asked him via email if he has, he said no.
He believes there are likely bodies in both ravines. Really, the crux of his book can just be casting doubt on 28 in Deep Ravine. Just like the rest of the battle, there are many contradictions and accounts that just don't make sense.
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Post by shatonska on Sept 13, 2005 14:48:05 GMT -6
Funny, I keep hearing how Michno "has sort of baked off from" his theory about Cemetery Ravine. But when I asked him via email if he has, he said no. He believes there are likely bodies in both ravines. Really, the crux of his book can just be casting doubt on 28 in Deep Ravine. Just like the rest of the battle, there are many contradictions and accounts that just don't make sense. if these 28 men went in deep ravine we could have now plenty of indian accounts telling us the great mess that had to be in there , instead we have only accounts of a couple of soldiers arriving there |
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Post by d o harris on Sept 26, 2005 22:12:51 GMT -6
Why can't we simply accept what the original burial parties said. Benteen said 22 bodies in Deep Ravine, others said 28. They were there. They buried their comrades. Didn't the reburial party in 1877 confirm this?
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Post by El Crab on Sept 27, 2005 1:04:23 GMT -6
Why can't we simply accept what the original burial parties said. Benteen said 22 bodies in Deep Ravine, others said 28. They were there. They buried their comrades. Didn't the reburial party in 1877 confirm this? No, they didn't. And they said they found all of the bodies and marked them. And given how many markers there are on the field, Michno has good points. They didn't speak of finding graves and staking them in Deep Ravine, and Sweet had 40-odd extra markers to find spots for, yet he didn't put the markers in Deep Ravine. Until they find 'em, I don't know where they were. As Michno said, they're likely in both. But the accounts are so ambiguous, who knows which ravine or where in said ravines the bodies were found. And no trace has been found of a multitude of bodies in Deep Ravine. |
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