The 2022 Weir Point Field Trip

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

[johnson1941]

Thanks! This is great stuff.
A couple minor errors, but very helpfull.

Glad to know others got all this too! Woop Woop!

A lot of Camp based statements and info. Nice to be aware the amount of faith others like Donahue have in him/them.

Weir peaks a 4 miute trot? Cool. Of course Weir was on "Weir"'s Hill directing Edgerly around, so shorter trip/distance.
Camp had issue no one went/was sent to the heights (SSH too maybe?) for 2.5 hours after Reno retreated - 'only a 1/2mile distant' and 'less then 3 minute ride' to the high points.

That Camp map at 5:59 would be great to see entirely. Available in Drawing Battle Lines from Donahue.


Shows SSH, Weir's Hill, the high ridge south of Peaks/along the bluffs Curley spoke of, South Coulee aka Cedar which Martin and the scouts talk of, the Peaks/crescent where the advance troops dismounted at Weir Point... a real improvement and tremendous confirmation compared to the Edgerly-marked one.

WMC/Edgerly...


Edgerly
“Weir standing on high point signaled that Inds. were coming & he therefore turned back and circled to left and crossed his track {his own track = D troop's}and took the high peak still in advance of Weir”

This is the “D troop advance” loop shown on Camp’s blue map and described by Edgerly. Weir was on his Hill on the bluff to the left, D in the ‘little valley’/coulee to the right.


Curley re: South Coulee
“On the first line of bluffs back from the river there are two high peaks marked "A" on the map, now called Reno peaks. For some distance south of these there is a high ridge running parallel with the river, but not so high as the peaks. Custer's command passed into the valley of a tributary of Reno Creek just behind this ridge and the peaks and went down it, going in a direction directly north and coming out into the bed of Reno Creek about a mile from its mouth at Ford B”


Hopefully others can/will comment!

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

A Narrative of the battle was published by Tom O’Neil’s Arrow and Trooper Publishing Co. in “The Gibson-Edgerly Narratives”. It was presented to Colonel Charles F. Bates by Edgerly’s widow. Bates made three typescript copies of the original, presenting one to Mrs. Custer (now in the Custer Collection at the LBH Battlefield National Monument), another to William Ghent (now in the Ghent Papers at the Library of Congress), and the third to Dr. Francis R. Hagner (now in the Hagner Collection at the New York Public Library). The original must be among the Charles F. Bates Papers in Yale University Library.



Excerpted: 'Benteen moved in the direction ordered until we came to some steep and high hills, where he ordered Lieut. Gibson to ride to the top of them and see if there were any Indians in sight. Gibson reporting to the negative, the battalion skirted the hills looking for a chance to break through the chain without giving the horses and men a too fatiguing climb. This, of course, brought us to the right and nearly into Reno’s trail, in less than an hour. About this time, Mr. Boston Custer, the General’s youngest brother, rose by on his pony. He had satiated back with the pack train and was now hurrying up to join the General’s immediate command. He gave me a cheery salutation as he passed and then, with a smile on his face, rose to his death, dying as he, although not a soldier, would have chosen to die, fighting gallantly by the side of his brothers.

At this time a few Indians who were posted behind rocks and points of the bluff were firing into our command and Weir’s troop quickly dismounted to fight on foot, formed a skirmish line and drove them away, silencing their fire in a very few minutes. Then came a time of suspense. We could hear heavy firing down the river and knew it must be Custer, D troop (Weir’s) was for a long while standing to horse, every man apparently anxious to move down to the firing. I wondered what we were waiting for and said to Captain Weir, “We ought to go down there.” Weir went away for a few minutes then came back again and asked me what I thought we ought to do. I replied, “Go to Custer, of course.”

He then asked if I would be willing to go with him and D troop, even if the other troops did not go. I told him I would and he then left me saying that he would ask permission of Reno and Benteen. Before reaching these officers, however, he changed his mind and concluded that before he asked permission to take the troop down he would go out to a high point that overlooked the valley and see what was going on there...so he came back towards the troop, called to an orderly to bring his horse, mounted and started towards the Custer battle ground, without saying a word to me. I, supposing from our conversation and his action, that he had received the desired permission, mounted the troop and started after him.

He rode along the crest of the bluffs where Custer was last seen alive by many of our command and I took the troop a little to the right following a shallow ravine [i.e., likely Cedar Coulee]. The Indians from the Custer battlefield saw us cross the highest point of the bluff [likely across Sharpshooter Ridge] and a large number of them started for us. Weir from his high point [i.e., on the Weir Peaks] saw them start and signaled for me to move to the right, continuing his signals until he had swung the troop completely around and brought it to where he was.

This is excerpted but nothing is added to the text, although quite some (an immense ad fascinating majority) is declined. In relation to Edgerley's Loop,I include Walter M. Camp's early crack at it, and wonder if anyone can discern the text which I have boxed in red, on the map below. I can't quite figure out the scrawl which may be vital, or not. Of course Loop ain't no Mach Loop but may or may not be relevent to 'Line of Sight' realities during Company D's advance to skirmish with Standing Bear's band. Camp also indicates Lt. Hodgson's death site and thus the terrain to which Maj. Reno and Sgt. Culbertson went in search of the body.

It's interesting stuff. Almost as interesting as why Edgerley would deny to Col. W.A. Graham; that he ever met Walter M. Camp. I'm sure the answer is devastatingly simple.

Camp Map query

Regards.

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

Mapping the battle A 2nd edition may be in the works link

[johnson1941]

“D troop advance”. Very glad to see Camp improved his survey/interview map after this...


That Narrative matches Camp, the RCOI and Yates interviews very well. Edgerly is consistent (also does well at distances and heights).
Edgerly re: Camp - whether via interview or correspondence - gonna trust they got it right, as confirmed they apparently did. A couple of the authors [comments] re:'Weir's High point' and the '...saw us cross the highest point of the bluffs' being SSR (which is NOT on the bluffs) would be highly questionable.


As we again can learn from Edgerly as seen in the OP, Weir was not at Weir Point till after D troop looped back around, back to the bluffs, and moved down & arrived there. 

“…took the high peak (2nd Reno peak, farthest north) still in advance of Weir”; “Weir never personally got as far ahead as Edgerly”


Hence Capt Weir’s HILL was Weir's signaling high point {very highly likely why it is named for him}. This is ‘the highest point to the left, on the bluff’ where Edgerly too - i.e. “we” - 'had already seen indians from' before he went down the coulee towards them to the right. They crossed Martin's Ridge @weir's Hill to get there.
Weir Point / Edgerly Peaks was then/after this loop their furthest advance.

Indians were pursuing Custer along the bluffs to the east AND through the village after Reno retreated. Could be the ones moving along the bluffs/coulees were those Edgerly refers to. Or not. But Edgerly said he moved to the right TOWRDS them, so....


And Reno standing on that same “summit of the highest bluff” (pt 5/7) did send Hare to Weir to open up comms with Custer, after Weir had already headed out. He wasnt out too far yet though…


This is ground we’ve been over before.

Edgerly, Ft Yates
After going a few hundred yards I swung off to the right with the troop and went into a little valley which must have been the one followed by Custer and his men, or nearly parallel to it, and moved right towards the great body of the Indians, whom we had already seen from the highest point. After we had gone a short distance down the valley, Col. Weir, who had remained to our left, on the bluff, saw a large number of Indians coming toward us, and motioned with his hand for me to swing around with the troop to where he was, which I did. When I got up on the bluff I saw Col. Benteen, Captain French and Lieutenant Godfrey coming toward us with their troops. We moved along on that bluff for a short distance, when the Indians commenced to fire on us. 

RCOI
We went down about a mile and a half, he keeping up on the ridge and I going in a sort of valley… 
…
I went down this valley, Captain Weir keeping up on the ridge. Pretty soon he saw Indians start for me, and he signaled me to swing to the right. I obeyed it and came round up on the hill and saw Captain Benteen, Captain French and Captain Godfrey, with their companies and I also saw Lieutenant Hare speak to Captain Weir.
…
We moved out along the ridge, the highest point, that point “7,” and then we moved down the valley in the general direction of the point “8.” We moved from Major Reno’s position about a mile and a half, and then swung around on those swells and came up again and met the other companies coming up. We moved out and went to a point which I now mark “9.” ...

[johnson1941]

“Weir Point / Edgerly Peaks was then/after this loop their farthest advance”

Edgerly
Q. How far do you estimate the most advanced point you were from Major Reno’s position?
A. I judge it was a mile and a half.


Wylie, D troop Corporal
Re: Edgerly Peak/crescent advance
Men dismounted and put horses behind Edgerly peaks and behind hill to east and men formed line over this hill from east to west
seeing many horsemen over on distant ridge with guidons flying Weir said "That is Custer over there" and mounted up ready to go over, when Sergt. Flanagan said: "Here, Capt. you had better take a look through the glasses, I think those are Indians."
Weir did so and changed his mind about leaving the place.
Accordingly the men were dismounted and the horses led behind the hill.

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

You may need to improve the chronology slightly. Weir left Edgerley for a few minutes before the discussion about an advance after Custer.

There is your Weir Hill episode with Weir moving to the bluff and discussing dust clouds in the 'valley' with Culbertson, I think it was. If not then it was Davern.

The Edgerley Loop shown on the map is interesting but can only be an interpretation unless there is proof that WMC was at the terrain with men of D troop.

Anyway, by the time Indians celebrating victory on Battle Ridge saw D troop, except for romantics who swim with Whittaker and Kuhlman type fantasy; Custer's command were dead. 2,000 attacking 200 gets the lesser force wiped out very quickly.

Custer's companies were destroyed in detail - one at a time. That is effectively odds of ........ 50 - 1.

Regards.

[johnson1941]

Yep - Weir had already left. As had D.

And Reno standing on that same “summit of the highest bluff” (pt 5/7) did send Hare to Weir to open up comms with Custer, after Weir had already headed out. He wasnt out too far yet though

Reno Report
"We had heard firing in that direction and knew it could only be Custer. I moved to the summit of the highest bluff, but seeing and hearing nothing sent Captain Weir with his company to open communications with him."

Weir had to have been between his Hill and the peaks at the time.
Edgerly saw the 3 troops coming down the bluffs as he hit them after his loop in the coulee/swells, and saw Hare had talked to Weir.

“After they got out ahead Hare came out with instructions from Reno…Hare returned to Reno & then M, H, K came out”



After this, they ”met the other companies coming up. We moved out and went to a point which I now mark “9””, the peaks.

From the descriptions re:Camp & Wylie, it seems Edgerly was on the most northern of the 2 peaks, while Weir was on the crescent to the east. Hare had said Weir needed a ravine to return to Reno at pt 5/7, while Edgerly had the Vincent Charlie and horse mounting episodes. That would have to be compared with Edgerly at the RCOI.




Do not recall specifics re: about Weir seeing dust in the valley. That'd be interesting.
Maybe see if you can find it? Ill check too.
[edit see post below]


I'd agree the loop is an interpretation, even if by Edgerly. Doubt anyone measured it exactly.
It was described well enough.


Yep somewhere in all those narratives i think it is mentioned how the firing had really quieted down as they got up to the point.

[johnson1941]

Davern, RCOI

Q. What did you see in the direction from which the fire was coming at the time?
A. I saw what I supposed to be Indians, circling around in the bottom on the opposite side of the creek from where we had our fight, away down in the bottom.
Q. Could you tell from where you were on which side of the creek they were?
A. I might be deceived because there were so many bends in the creek.
Q. About how many Indians did you see?
A. There were a good many there.
Q. Were they raising much dust?
A. Yes, sir, I called the attention of Captain Weir to it at the time.
Q. What did you say to him and what did he say to you?
A. I said to Captain Weir, “That must be General Custer fighting down in the bottom.” He asked me where and I showed him. He said, “Yes, I believe it is.”
Q. What did he do then?
A. Not anything.
Q. Where was Major Reno at that time?
A. I don’t know, he was somewhere on the hill.
Q. About how long was that after you got on the hill?
A. Maybe half an hour after.
Q. Refresh your memory about what was done by any part of the command right away after that firing was heard.
A. Nothing was done.
Q. Had Captain Benteen got up with his column at the time you heard this firing, and spoke to Captain Weir about it?
A. I think he must have been there.
Q. Did you see his column come up?
A. No, I did not, but I saw the pack train come up soon after I got on the hill.
...
Q. Where did Captain Weir go about the time you spoke to him as you stated?
A. No where.
Q. Where did the company go?
A. No where.
Q. Do you remember whether Captain Weir moved his command down the stream?
A. Not at that time. He did later in the evening.
Q. How long after you spoke to him about the firing?
A. Over an hour.
Q. How long was that after the pack train came up?
A. Between one and two hours.
Q. Where did it go?
A. What I heard was to open communication with General Custer.
Q. Do you mean two hours after you crossed the stream, or two hours after you got on the hill?
A. Two hours after I got on the hill.
Q. Did the whole command go down?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At the same time?
A. Shortly after Captain Weir moved out.
Q. How soon after the pack train came up did the whole command move down?
A. About two hours after the advance of the pack train came up.
Q. Were you sent to Captain Weir with any word?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you go to him that afternoon?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who sent you?
A. He called me himself and asked me to tell him the details of the fight in the bottom.
...


Good stuff - think this is part of the repluse at "B"? Greasy Grass? Custer at the bottom 1/2 hour after the reno retreat up? Or just indians making dust?

Seems the 2 would have to be at some altitude, and/or right on the bluffs, to see it. ??

Edgerly
The first sergeant came up then and I saw a large cloud of dust and thought there must be a charge, and said, “There must be General Custer. I guess he is getting away with them.” He said, “Yes, sir, and I think we ought to go there.” I did not answer him.….
Q. This cloud of dust that you saw, where was it? On the Custer battlefield? A. No, sir, I think it was on the left bank of the stream and was made by some Indians from the fight coming towards the village discharging their pieces as they came in.

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

They would certainly be at the bluffs edge towards the river, in my view .

What we know of events depends on the model of action which is considered. Taking all those 'for' an action on the river/mouth of Deep Coulee - Greasy Grass Hill, then the commotion in the camp area was captured stampedes consistent with Peter Thompson's observation, and Curley's ideas of the retreat north through Finley Hill. A model I work with from time to time is the companies swinging about a pivot on Finley Hill, to form a line along the west side of the ridge of hills flanking Deep Coulee. There is a spring in the area towards the riverside and with a flood of warriors detected approaching from Weir Point acrosss MTC - that might offer an initial response which explains some of the Indian accounts of an early phase of fighting.

Another model declines any significant situation for Ford B scenarios, in which case the cavalry horses had escaped across the river from farther north and or west and perhaps via Deep Ravine. That would offer the prospect of a much quicker collapse in the Monument Hill and Deep Ravine terrain ala Kuhlman. Personally, I am of the view that Charles wore his pants back to front life-long and never relieved himself.

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

Alink to visuals on the Godfrey Hill, twin peaks issue link which explains what is being seen.

Reno stated that he 'moved to the summit of the highest bluff' and that does not mean that he moved to the highest hill, point or anywhere overlooking the scene beyond Horizon Ridge. According to Herendeen, Reno was examining the valley and watching tipi's being taken down, moved, and re-erected further downstream. He questioned Half Yellow Face as to the meaning of it and was told, 'They have taken down the tente, moved down the valley, and are putting them up again, Great Chief.' It was at this time that the retreat from advance got underway. We know this due to Herendeen and Half Yellow Face being on the bluffs with the command, after leaving the timber and valley bottom. It was at this time, during the retreat, that the three Crow scouts returned to join the command. It was impossible that they met Beneteen and Half Yellow Face, as Benteen rode onto the bluffs from Reno Ck. because Half Yellow Face was not on the bluffs but fighting for his life in the timber downriver and east (right bank) of Reno's line of retreat. It was not the three Crows who Benteen met in arriving to Reno, either. They were downriver with Custer at Greasy Grass Hill, as they told ESC. That is what the three scouts told Curtis and he published that much, on his map of the battle.

It is my guess that the scouts were forced to hunker down as the Sioux on the bluffs poured downriver across MTC to attack Custer, and then soldiers arrived beyond Horizon Ridge. Anything downriver which was not army, was fair game and Edgerley (we know) was involved in friendly fire incidents. As Company D fell back, the three Crows followed them into the corral, and escaped later as darkness fell, when soldiers went down to the river for a drink and to get water. That was done on the 25th, as well as the following day although that is little known.

We learn from Donahue in his hump over the hills, that the ride from Reno Hill to Weir Point takes four minutes, which as 60/4 is 15mph - perfectly reasonable. What is not so apparent but established, is that you can ride onto Weir Point. Weir Point, of course is not your Weir Hill and despite comment that points beyond Horizon Ridge on Custer Battlefield and the cemetery beyond can be seen from your Weir Hill - that simply is not so. WMC did doodoos and a lot of people understood it then, since, and to this day. As I put it, his work was evolutionary in its progress and a lot of it was guesswork based on interviews far from the valley and bluffs, and using letters and stuff published in press, books and official records.

When Edgerley denied EVER meeting WMC - there's a problem - isn't there. It isn't a difficult one to fathom - WMC met Edgerley or he didn't. One half that equation is Edgerley talking to another Officer and, one that was a Legal Eagle. Donahue seems to accept that Edgerley met WMC but I would like to see the evidence for it. Edgerley's description of his loop - is gobledeegook which people stretch longer than a bit of string like a rubber band. Twang. The entire construct of what Edgerley explained is Gobbledeegook. He did a loop...... Really?

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

In 2011, the museum collections and archives which had been stored in the basement of the existing visitor center, were temporarily moved to the Western Archeological Conservation Center in Tucson, Arizona. The relocation of museum equipment and the purchase of additional equipment (shelves, cabinets, and racks) and supplies allow the collections to be properly stored. link

There is hope that Arizona will get all the stuff online and thus we can see for ourselves, since a lot of WMC's stuff is with them and also Luce's discoveries and records. Of course, the plan is for a new visitor center by summer 2026 but I don't think that that is going to happen. NPS should have purchased Garryowen and developed it as an archive ceter but that would require a lot of dollop$. Would have been brilliant though since it is above the flood plain. Whilst access washes out, no flood is going 24' high.

link. Well, I don't think it will unless the North Pole melts.... Hmmm............... Photo of the year.

Anyways, none of the embankments carrying roads and railroad, were there in 1876. Neither was the mound on which the site stands today, and neither was the Reno ditch or irrigation ditches littering the valley floor. There were two benches, sage scrub, timber and brush along the river and old river meander scars, across a dusty level pounded to microdust beneath Montana sun and thousands upon thousands of hooves. That of course is another story, though.

[johnson1941]

Alink to visuals on the Godfrey Hill, twin peaks issue link which explains what is being seen.

Sigh.
STOP.
There is no need to discuss this old fantasy photo BS yet again. That theory is destroyed - proven to be false by the photographer himself, & shown impossible by the picture itself, related infomation, location, & OTHER ACTUAL IMAGES already.
Huffman described it exactly right, and got it exactly weir; While we KNOW in the book that numerous things were off.

NOT going to argue the same silly nonsense any more. Their takes are at times incorrect. You CAN see THE hill in several pictures - not just the one they couldn't locate so made up an excuse for a mile away. You can see the river turning in - as it was very close at Weir's HILL and not at all at Weir peaks.  They got it wrong - several times. 

Herorest: "Of course, in the end there needs be a product. The three or four that ended up involved did critique each others work and out popped baby. Once that happens, authors are 'kinda' locked into their output. That's a defacto as relevant as death and taxes....It's a book, entertainment, and that is a good book..."

Reno stated that he 'moved to the summit of the highest bluff' and that does not mean that he moved to the highest hill, point or anywhere overlooking the scene beyond Horizon Ridge

Correct - sort of. Reno was on the highest hill/point…he was 1/2mile south of Weir Peaks. Its close to 1/2mile north of the Corral. It is "the highest hill in that vicinity", AKA Weir's Hill/point 7/point 5. 

Correct - Reno did not even go to Weir Point (in the advance). Assuming that that IS what you again refer to as ‘horizon ridge’. 🤪
Reno also discussed retreating with Benteen while they were 1/2mile above Edgerly Peaks, was up there on that highest hill point 5/7, and sent Hare out again.

Herendeen
what is called Weir’s Hill is the highest point on the ridge in that vicinity...that highest point, Weir’s Hill, probably half a mile down.

Hare
He {Reno} was going to that highest point {marked pt 5} when I went away.
….

Q. Did he {Weir} come back and join Major Reno’s column on the hill marked “5”?

A. Yes, sir.
...
"Benteen & Reno were discussing matters (they were standing about 1/2 mile in rear of D)..."
...
When I returned I told Major Reno what Captain Weir had said to me and I looked up and saw Captain Weir coming joining the column.

Davern
Q. Were you with Major Reno at that time as his orderly?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where did he go?
A. At the head of the command.
Q. Where was Captain Weir?
A. He was ahead.
Q. What did you do after you went down?
A. The column halted and Major Reno sent for Captain Weir.

Weir Point, of course is not your Weir Hill and despite comment that points beyond Horizon Ridge on Custer Battlefield and the cemetery beyond can be seen from your Weir Hill - that simply is not so.

Correct. ONCE AGAIN - ANY such comments would be wrong. Good thing no one made them, as the actual views from the different locations and highest hill have been established numeorus times in other threads. 

Benteen noted at the RCOI that some officers got the view wrong, likely cause they got the high points confused…that problem is still evident today for the less-informed. It is confirmed you can't see the battlefield from Weir's Hill. They could see D & Weir on the way to the peaks from his Hill and Martin's Ridge.

Benteen
"...I planted a guidon at the highest point that looked over that country. Some of the officers say that the battlefield was in sight, but I know positively that it was not, having gone over it two or three times since"

DeRudio
"it was the highest point around there. I went on the top of it afterwards on the 27 with Capt. Benteen."

McGuire
“Did pack train start toward Custer when Godfrey, Benteen, and others moved down that way? Yes, went to top of ridge where could see Weir out ahead”

Reno
Q. Do you remember about a guidon being placed at a point termed Captain Weir’s hill?
A. It was done.
...
Q. This guidon you speak of being planted as a rallying point for someone, where was it planted?
A. On the top of the highest hill. It was thought its fluttering might attract attention sooner than a horse.

..points beyond Horizon Ridge on Custer Battlefield and the cemetery beyond can be seen from your Weir Hill - that simply is not so. WMC did doodoos and a lot of people understood it then, since, and to this day.

As I put it, his work was evolutionary in its progress

WMC confirmed Benteen and the views, or lack there of, from Capt Weir’s Hill, so as usual lately, not sure what you are trying to say, or what you think 'a lot of people understood' ??.
All this too has been established several times in other threads.

Hmm..may be you are confused with the views from Weir's Hill and SSH? Could be you who mis-understood, and not Camp - 'cause once again it is shown he was right.

Camp
"from Weir Hill can see the Custodians house but not the monument nor any part of Custer battlefield"
"From this hill, can only see the Hunkpapa & Black feet lodges”

Now, the other high point north of Reno corral, from which Inds. fired, aka SSH, less then 3 minutes away, however…
Camp re: Reno/Benteen failure to act sooner:


'...with a 5-power field glass...the fence around the monument is easily made out...'
'fence posts around the cemetery on Custer Hill are easily made out'


Since the RCOI, other narratives, and maps often show/tell what happened where, there was a good base for WMC to build on. Luckily he got into the details with the witnesses - what high hill, what coulee in what direction, what path, what route, what spot, who advanced exactly where, who saw what from where, and where such features are all located - distances bearings altitudes, etc. It is good he reached far and wide and strived for accuracy and confirmation from his sources, especially on site. WMC confirms much and adds details of what we can find elsewhere, as described by those there. 

When Edgerley denied EVER meeting WMC - there's a problem - isn't there.

Only if you feel WMC got his information wrong, and/or did not correspond with Edgerly, and/or did not really use the Edgerly narratives that he referred to & quoted from; OR you feel you NEED to rely on WMC to know what happened.

WMC does provide great confirmation and supplies much important data from witnesses.

But you can read Edgerly to know what Edgerly did and where. He gets pretty specific. For instance we know he went to highest Weir's Hill pt 7 & crossed Martin's Ridge, then went down South/Cedar Coulee (pt 8), then looped back around to the bluffs, then went to Edgerly peaks (pt 9) and dismounted. Same with Wylie. And Hare. And Martin. And etc. You shouldn’t just dismiss any of the source/info cause for some reason you don’t trust one conduit. That’s why it’s important to realize how it is all related. Statements are often complimentary. Even w/o WMC as corroborration/providing specifics. Even period pictures help ensure the facts.

IF you REALLY need to KNOW EXACTLY what Edgerlys loop back around looked like? Well - good luck!

Anyway - other then the goofy picture “match” nonsense, it is good you are starting to pick up & trust more in a lot of this stuff.

For amusement...more perfect "matches"...

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

An anecdote link

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

Nice try, however I indicated to you in various ways that DeRudio did NOT see Custer on the bluffs. It didn'y happen because that command was no longer on the bluffs. Likewise, Reno's movements after returning from the trip to locate Hodgson at the river, are all but unkown and only confirmed by Herendeen when he climbed the bluffs and interpretted the conversation between Reno and Half Yellow Face. Hare, if you accept his information as exists in record, places Edgerley in MTC and that would be because he was there with him. He could not see him from Weir Point. Reno was at 3411 and that was Benteen's little joke. He was at 3411 wondering why the hostiles were re-erecting there tipis a couple of miles downriver. Not the brightest penny, was he?