Jenny
Full Member
Posts: 200
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Foley
Jan 8, 2023 18:01:18 GMT -6
Post by Jenny on Jan 8, 2023 18:01:18 GMT -6
I found this snippet by Fred W. re. Cpl. John Foley's getaway:
There is also some talk about one or two men-- possibly as many as four-- who tried to make a getaway. These are generally thought to be 1SG Butler (L) and CPL Foley (C). I would suspect they died earlier in the fighting rather than later because of their units. If I remember correctly, Richard Fox said in all likelihood they came from the Keogh Sector and were cut down before Benteen would have arrived on Weir Peaks.
I make the case that Tom Weir reached the northernmost peak at 3:51 PM and I also claim that the most intense fighting on Calhoun Hill and in the Keogh Sector occurred from 3:53 to 4:25 PM. Since Edgerly would not have reached the loaf area and consolidated his troops until about 4:14 PM, I would venture to say Butler and Foley made their run some time between 4 PM and 4:15.
Foley was probably killed first, while it may have taken a few minutes longer to kill Butler, but both men would have reached their gravesites in very short order, no more than a couple of minutes.
My question for all of you is do you believe the story about the guidon being found under his body? Did he shoot himself? I just finished his portrait today and will put it on my blog. It's a great story - Sotheby's thinks so, anyway! But I'm searching for whatever I can find that is closest to truth.
Much thanks,
Jenny
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Foley
Jan 9, 2023 5:31:06 GMT -6
Post by noggy on Jan 9, 2023 5:31:06 GMT -6
My question for all of you is do you believe the story about the guidon being found under his body? Did he shoot himself? I just finished his portrait today and will put it on my blog. It's a great story - Sotheby's thinks so, anyway! But I'm searching for whatever I can find that is closest to truth. Much thanks, Jenny Well... In many cases regarding LBH, "belief" is the only thing we have in lack of hard facts. Often that leads to people "believing" what fits their own view of the battle; for instance if one has a more romantic (I hate that word used when talking about war) or cynical approach. There are so many things where we'll never be able to find the truth. So personally I often just class things as probable or not. For me, the answer is that I don't find it hard to believe that Foely or other troopers shot themselves. The fear of torture was real. NA accounts suggest suicides happened among the troopers, but I don't believe for instance Wooden Leg when he describes borderline mass suicides. Skeletal examinations have as far as I remember not conclusively proved cases of suicide either, but I may be wrong here. I can't remember all the details, but some of the stories about the trooper who almost got away have him dying by what may have been an accidental discharge. Riding a horse at full speed while probably panicked and holding a Colt is not very safe. There was previously a thread here where accidental shootings in the US Army was discussed. So I can believe that a rider, especially on a frightened mount, could have had an accident. Neither do I find it hard to believe that a guidon may have been found underneath a dead trooper, as long as he fell in some bush or something away from the warriors, who otherways probably would have looted the body. If for instance this story is correct, I doubt a guidon would be underneath the body: "One soldier on a sorrel horse tried to get around the Indians. He was on a sorrel horse with white legs. The Indians took after him, and shot at him, but could not catch him. They saw some smoke and the report of a gun, and saw him fall off his horse. The Indians went over and he had shot himself. Someone of the Hunkpapa band got the horse a nd tied him to a stake. Everyone went to look at it." But there are many different stories of seemingly the same event, so who knows. Several soldiers may have made a run for it. Foley may or may not have been one of them, and he may very well have been killed without ever being close to LSH. All the best, Noggy
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 9, 2023 7:09:27 GMT -6
Flag probably. Ever tried to ride a horse rein in one hand and a cocked pistol in the other at full speed over rough terrain?
Rw, Tom
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Post by noggy on Jan 9, 2023 8:27:49 GMT -6
Flag probably. Ever tried to ride a horse rein in one hand and a cocked pistol in the other at full speed over rough terrain? Rw, Tom In Norway we have saying about doing stupid things, calling it "Hull i hodet." Directly translated, it means saying something is "Hole in the head"...I think it would be a very fitting description of riding full speed with a cocked Colt All the best, Geir
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Post by crzhrs on Jan 9, 2023 8:39:34 GMT -6
Plains Indians Warriors were pretty good at shooting arrows from a horse while buffalo hunting!
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 9, 2023 10:25:39 GMT -6
Plains Indians Warriors were pretty good at shooting arrows from a horse while buffalo hunting! Indians could ride with an independent seat. That allows the use of the hands. One of the things the Army worked on after the battle was establishing the school of cavalry with Godfrey serving. Regards AZ Ranger
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Foley
Jan 9, 2023 10:31:05 GMT -6
Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 9, 2023 10:31:05 GMT -6
I thought that Foley had his pistol out, as Tom stated, and his hat moved, and he reached for it. Horsemen would know you have a split second to cinch it down or lose it. It is something you do without thinking. Not a good thing with a cocked pistol in your hand.
We had an Arizona officer shoot himself in the neck while reaching for his radio microphone with his duty weapon in his hand. The officer survived.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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Foley
Jan 9, 2023 12:03:58 GMT -6
Post by tubman13 on Jan 9, 2023 12:03:58 GMT -6
I would add Steve, try to point an arrow at yourself while it is knocked. If the horse stumbled the arrow may then become an issue.
Regards, Tom
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