|
|
Post by montrose on Aug 15, 2019 21:58:31 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by noggy on Aug 18, 2019 5:30:33 GMT -5
War is ugly, but dying while protecting your comrades is a true noble deed regardless. I must say, reading the wiki page about Chapman en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_A._Chapman , things look a little shady post battle. Never heard of the Naval Special Warfare Command, but is it common that certain branches or whatever the correct term here is really try blocking medals? Is it btw common that it takes 14 years (or more) to decide if medals are to be handed out? I know there are many people here with experience from the US Army who probably knows this stuff. All the best, Geir |
|
|
|
Post by montrose on Aug 18, 2019 8:02:59 GMT -5
Navy Special Warfare Command spun a story that portrayed them favorably. MSG Chapman was Air Force, and they were protecting their own service.
This video demolished their story. Not the first time a chain of command tried to cover up incompetence. I won't get into Slabinski, the guy who abandoned a comrade and lied about it.
It would be nice to have a drone watching Calhoun Hill on 25 Jun 76.
|
|
|
|
Post by noggy on Aug 18, 2019 12:44:42 GMT -5
Here, something like that would end up in court. Disgraceful.
All the best,
Geir
|
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 19, 2019 5:32:27 GMT -5
LOL!  I see Fred is on line, how goes it Fred, still putting in the hard hours. Yan |
|
|
|
Post by fred on Aug 19, 2019 5:38:12 GMT -5
Ian,
Yes... only more so.
I gave a seminar on Saturday at a National Historic Site: Saint Paul's Church in Mount Vernon, NEW YORK. I was supposed to last an hour; it lasted about 2 ½ . So between that, two more, and two new books, things are rather hectic.
Hope you and Susan are doing well.
By the way, do I owe you any answers...? Things are rather frazzled around here.
Best wishes,
Fred.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 19, 2019 5:45:40 GMT -5
No I don't think so Fred, we are good.
Thanks and regards to Lisa too, hope you are both well.
You never know, I may get over there next year to view the battlefield.
Ian
|
|
|
|
Post by dave on Sept 2, 2019 20:06:02 GMT -5
Montrose
Thank you for posting the video link about John Chapman. I was intrigued regarding his story and bought Alone at Dawn to pursue the story further. I have not finished the book but suspect it will not be a "tell all" in any fashion. Is there a source that I might consult that would have further information available for a civilian such as I, or is this story to be known only within the SF community?
Regards
Dave
|
|
|
|
Post by tubman13 on Sept 17, 2019 19:08:13 GMT -5
The initial request for the first award came a long time ago, and was ignored through 2 administrations. I spent from 1969 to 1994 associated with the USAF, most with the Air National Guard. A SEAL participant finally signed on to the request late in the Bush administration, USAF had sent it up early on. This video has been available since John's demise, obviously. Montrose was part of a select group. I spent some time supporting at Hurlbert and Savannah, not much. The USAF Air Commandos and forward controllers are the much forgotten bastards of our special operations. Thanks for posting this up Will.
Regards,
Tom
|
|
|
|
Post by montrose on Sept 19, 2019 19:34:58 GMT -5
The initial request for the first award came a long time ago, and was ignored through 2 administrations. I spent from 1969 to 1994 associated with the USAF, most with the Air National Guard. A SEAL participant finally signed on to the request late in the Bush administration, USAF had sent it up early on. This video has been available since John's demise, obviously. Montrose was part of a select group. I spent some time supporting at Hurlbert and Savannah, not much. The USAF Air Commandos and forward controllers are the much forgotten bastards of our special operations. Thanks for posting this up Will. Regards, Tom We discuss evidence a lot on this board. In this case, the SEALS tried to promote a false story about this battle. We have video and audio evidence that they lied, again, and again, and again. The ground mission commander made numerous errors, some in planning, some in execution, some in cowardice. To cover up errors they denigrated a brave man doing his duty. The price of recognizing Chapman's heroism was also rewarding the incompetent coward. And we have video and audio evidence that proves this. (The audio evidence is still classified, even though FOIA requests have been approved, the Navy does not want the disgrace on their force if they are released. I have heard them, there is a good reason they do not want them released. Chapman called for help several times, everyone heard him). This is very relevant to LBH. We don't have video and audio proof, but the heroic narrative of this battle has been clearly proven false by Wagner and others. LTC Custer screwed the pooch here, and MAJ Reno and CPT Benteen are heroes for salvaging what they could from their commanders gross incompetence. (The military makes a distinction between incompetence and gross incompetence. The first means you made a bad decision. The second means you are unfit to serve in that grade.) My problem in the modern case is lying about planning and leadership failures means you repeat the errors. Patilla airfield, Chapman fight, Operation Red Wings, Mali, the list goes on and on. I look at history as how do we learn from our mistakes. It would be nice to learn from our successes, but American military history has shown that we always fail at start of conflicts, have to learn through defeat. Lying about errors is not what a professional force does. |
|
|
|
Post by AZ Ranger on Sept 28, 2019 16:14:51 GMT -5
William
Do you know Bert Kuntz? He was special forces and now raises buffalo and has a coffee company in Sheridan Wyoming.
Regards
Steve
|
|
|
|
Post by montrose on Sept 29, 2019 6:15:17 GMT -5
William Do you know Bert Kuntz? He was special forces and now raises buffalo and has a coffee company in Sheridan Wyoming. Regards Steve I do. He was an 18D, Special Forces Medic. This is where our smart guys go, highly intelligent and motivated. He didn't do his 20, for whatever reason. He would have made CSM if he stayed. |
|
|
|
Post by montrose on Sept 29, 2019 6:25:30 GMT -5
I started this thread to show false narratives still exist. The Keough board represents a false narrative of LBH, with blatant lies and false evidence a mainstay of that site and the organization behind it.
But in the global war on terrorism, 2001 to now, we still see false narratives. And in this specific case, we have video and audio proof that the false narrative is a lie. Operation Red Wings is another example.
My professional anger is that by covering up planning and leadership errors, NAVSPECWARCOM repeats them over and over. Failed missions, dead operators. USASOC does not have many high drama fights of isolated teams in enemy territory, because they don't get caught due to planning and leadership failure.
In my opinion NAVSPECWARCOM should be MARSPECWARCOM. The marines are the ground fighting component of the Navy. Put them in charge and the problem is solved.
|
|
|
|
Post by AZ Ranger on Sept 29, 2019 15:11:08 GMT -5
Thanks William
I fully agree with you. We have debriefings on what happens and if everyone is not honest we lose the ability to do things better. It is not about the mistakes its about being better.
I had a reserve officer that went extremely to the coward side. We were taking rounds around my Game and Fish truck and I told him when the start down to the river where we were at we would open fire. As they turned I looked over and he was sitting with his back against the front wheel shaking and crying. I am sure I yelled something that needed to be said to him. My truck was hit and so were some horses around us but we were OK.
Regards
Steve
|
|
|
|
Post by herosrest on Oct 7, 2019 5:27:52 GMT -5
If and when you find and believe that something is in error, what is it that is in error? A cluster shambles operation which can be shown up by those who know of it, will often be glossed over in the greater interests of those with authority and the herd which they supervise. That may or may not make sense but here's a real Wold example  US navy torpedoes during early WWII were ineffective. They did not explode on contact and the 'fight' to establish this as a reality was 'profound'. It's a wonderfully instructive broad topic which should never be forgotten and probably is the first thing that everyone should be taught about responsibility. It's a real LULU tale. Anysways....... since we can all now fill our beer glasses from the bottom up, I offer cheers and admiration for the illusion that is Mudd's Women Make love, not war. FMSo.... An effective anti shipping campaign by US forces during 1942 would have seriously hampered Japan's under resourced and tightly scheduled maritime supply fleet and its efforts. It was their major weakness. Fighting at Midway came down to a much finer margin than anyone has, to date, outlined. 41 Douglas TBD Devastator torpedo bombers launched during the battle produced zero hits with only six returning to their carriers. Their attack weapon did not work. Those who used the Springfield carbine at Little Bighorn were muted in its criticism for jamming, a poor quality breech and lack of maintenance in the field. Senior management responsible for adopting the weapon were Afred H. Terry and Marcus A. Reno. The weapon went on to perform well in service once properly maintained in the field..... hmmmmm........ |
|
