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Post by Yan Taylor on Jun 10, 2019 5:33:36 GMT -6
No problem Tom, we are just two Europeans whos countries are not in the EU, who have similar tastes in sport and music and are working hard together to nail the Norwegian army circa 1940.
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Post by noggy on Jun 10, 2019 6:51:46 GMT -6
Let's see if I can measure next week, maybe Steve will remind me. but 2 sounds about right.
Regards, Tom
PS did not mean to interrupt your private party, Noggy and Ian! Haha, what party? I used some of Fred`s notes from a previous post Ian reminded me of and double checked with a map, so I`m fairly sure of the distance now. All the best, Geir
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Post by noggy on Jun 18, 2019 5:17:01 GMT -6
I have another Weir point related question, since I have not been to the battlefield.
Is there a line of sight towards Last Stand Hill? With modern binoculars of course. I know the soldiers at WP could not see LSH, but that has as I have understood it been due to dust, smoke and the optics available of the time. Calhoun Hill and such does not block the view, am I correct?
All the best, Noggy
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Post by Colt45 on Jun 18, 2019 16:38:49 GMT -6
Noggy, I have been to Weir point and it is quite a ways to LSH. I think I remember being able to see the monument, but it was quite far away. I would not have been able to discern activity there, other than seeing the vehicles moving, which are a bit larger than people. It was a clear day when I was there as there was no smoke, or dust at the time. Weir and company probably could not see much more than movement, which later turned out to be the Indians riding around striking dead bodies.
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Post by noggy on Jun 19, 2019 4:13:00 GMT -6
Noggy, I have been to Weir point and it is quite a ways to LSH. I think I remember being able to see the monument, but it was quite far away. I would not have been able to discern activity there, other than seeing the vehicles moving, which are a bit larger than people. It was a clear day when I was there as there was no smoke, or dust at the time. Weir and company probably could not see much more than movement, which later turned out to be the Indians riding around striking dead bodies. Hi Colt But how sure are yyou that they actually saw LSH and not the closer parts of Battle Ridge? To me it seems likely, at least. All the best, Noggy
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Post by Colt45 on Jun 19, 2019 7:07:01 GMT -6
My opinion is they saw the closer parts, such as the Calhoun hill area. With all the smoke and dust, I doubt an observer at Weir Point could have seen the action at LSH itself.
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Post by shan on Jun 19, 2019 7:15:20 GMT -6
Noggy,
I spent some time looking across to LSH from Weir Point, back when my eyes were good, and I could see the monument and cars moving about, but not individual people. I Suspect that those on Weir point couldn't see it for the smoke and dust, although having said that, they were up there for long enough so I suspect that there may have been occasions when it swirled and moved about enough for them to catch a glimpse.
My guess is that what they saw and reported was the end, or rather the aftermath of the fighting on Calhoun Hill, which, in my opinion, finished only shortly before the fighting on LSH. One way and another, I think there were those who knew just how serious what they were seeing was, but just couldn't believe it.
Beside's, some of them had just had a bad experience down in the valley, and dam me, here were those Indians coming after them again.
Shan
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Post by noggy on Jun 19, 2019 8:18:59 GMT -6
My opinion is they saw the closer parts, such as the Calhoun hill area. With all the smoke and dust, I doubt an observer at Weir Point could have seen the action at LSH itself. Yep, agreed. Noggy
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Post by shan on Jun 21, 2019 9:23:47 GMT -6
Noggy,
just to follow on from what I said about what they may, or may not have seen from Weir Point.
We always have to remember that it was very rare for an ordinary soldier to be asked his opinion back then, there was a kind of inverted snobbery that said that the only people worth talking too were people of class, which, in the armies case, meant officers. Thus, we have almost nothing from the privates ~ oh, and by the way, this applies to the whole battle, not just Weir Point. Its not that they had nothing to tell, for you can bet your bottom dollar that they did, it's just that they were never asked.
One last point, it was odd that the army in particular eventually got around to asking the Indians what they saw; not that they were believed mind you, except when it suited, and yet they never thought to ask the common soldier.
Shan
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Post by noggy on Jun 24, 2019 1:50:21 GMT -6
We always have to remember that it was very rare for an ordinary soldier to be asked his opinion back then, there was a kind of inverted snobbery that said that the only people worth talking too were people of class, which, in the armies case, meant officers. Thus, we have almost nothing from the privates ~ oh, and by the way, this applies to the whole battle, not just Weir Point. Its not that they had nothing to tell, for you can bet your bottom dollar that they did, it's just that they were never asked. Speaking of this, I have not yet gotten around to reading the whole RCOI. Was the hearing officers only? noggy
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Post by crzhrs on Jun 25, 2019 11:24:05 GMT -6
[/quote]Speaking of this, I have not yet gotten around to reading the whole RCOI. Was the hearing officers only?
noggy[/quote]
The RCOI included officers, enlisted men, freighters, doctors and scouts.
The RCOI is a must. This is first-hand (primary) accounts of people who were there. However, not all witnesses were forthcoming and some even contradicted other witnesses or hedged their answers for various reasons.
Still it's the best source of testimony.
Years later many witnesses changed or altered their accounts to either make themselves look more important or when people's opinion changed on what happened at the LBH or who was responsible.
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Post by crzhrs on Jun 25, 2019 11:35:23 GMT -6
I have another Weir point related question, since I have not been to the battlefield. Is there a line of sight towards Last Stand Hill? With modern binoculars of course. I know the soldiers at WP could not see LSH, but that has as I have understood it been due to dust, smoke and the optics available of the time. Calhoun Hill and such does not block the view, am I correct? All the best, Noggy Here's some info on what could be seen from Weir Point: Despite what countless books said, when Weir reached a peak named afterwards Weir Point, Custer’s battle was still raging. Little Bighorn specialist Wayne Michael Sarf admits that many officers on Weir Point “apparently saw more than they would later admit. There is little doubt that (Lieutenant) Edgerly destroyed the portion of a letter to his wife dealing with the Weir Point episode.” Sergeant Charles Windolph remembered what he saw on Weir Point : “Way off to the north you could see what looked to be groups of mounted Indians. There was plenty of firing going on.” Lieutenant Hare was interviewed by Walter Camp, who wrote: “While out in advance with (Captain Weir’s) Company D, the Indians were thick over on Custer ridge and were firing. (Hare) thought Custer was fighting them.” Private Edward Pigford: “at first when looked toward Custer ridge the Indians were firing from a big circle, but it gradually closed until they seemed to converge into a large black mass on the side hill toward the river and all along the ridge.”
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Post by noggy on Jun 26, 2019 9:20:02 GMT -6
Oh, I agree. And through other books I`ve gotten a lot of the testimonies, but one day I`ll get to the whole thing. Noggy
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Post by herosrest on Jun 27, 2019 8:38:22 GMT -6
Some records of the Palmer House hearing's. 1 - Link to The official record of a court of inquiry convened at Chicago, Illinois, January 13, 1879, by the President of the United States upon the request of Major Marcus A. Reno, 7th U.S. Cavalry, to investigate his conduct at the Battle of the Little Big Horn, June 25-26, 1876 (online) 2 - Library of Congress - Military Legal Resources - link (online) 3 - CUSTER1876 PUBLICATIONS - Publishers of Books on American Military History by Arthur C. Unger link to, THE ORIGINAL HANDWRITTEN TRANSCRIPT OF: THE RENO COURT OF INQUIRY edited by Arthur C. Unger. (CD) 4 - LINK to Abstract of the official record of proceedings of the Reno Court of Inquiry, convened at Chicago, Illinois, 13 January 1879, by the President of the United States, upon the request of Major Marcus A. Reno, 7th Cavalry, to investigate his conduct at the Battle of the Little Big Horn, 25-26 June, 1876. With a pref. by W. A. Graham. (online) I hope these help.
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