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Post by elhiggins on Apr 26, 2018 17:12:12 GMT -6
Since that seems like a hard question to find answers to this question, i wanted to see if there were any answers here. I tend to imagins most of the warriors as heing pretty young (16-20 years old). Are there any records that couod be a possible answer to this question?
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Post by noggy on Apr 27, 2018 1:01:25 GMT -6
Since that seems like a hard question to find answers to this question, i wanted to see if there were any answers here. I tend to imagins most of the warriors as heing pretty young (16-20 years old). Are there any records that couod be a possible answer to this question? In general, NAs were expected to perform their warrior duties from late teens to around 30, if I recall correctly. At LBH, boys younger than that fought, as well did men like Lame White Man who was close to 40. I don`t think we have enough confirmed dates of birth to find a sort of average, like we can with the 7th. |
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Post by tubman13 on Apr 27, 2018 9:49:29 GMT -6
These numbers should not be considered definitive.
Fighters borne in the 1820's 13%
1830's 22%
1840's 26%
1850's 32%
1860's 7%
The numbers were rounded and I still came up with only 99%.
Sampling of birth dates confirmed. One of the oldest fighting chiefs was Big Road born 1834, one of the youngest warrior's Black Elk born 1863. So early teens to late 40's.
I am sure Fred or someone else might be more definitive.
Regards,
Tom
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Post by noggy on Apr 27, 2018 13:00:50 GMT -6
These numbers should not be considered definitive. Fighters borne in the 1820's 13% 1830's 22% 1840's 26% 1850's 32% 1860's 7% The numbers were rounded and I still came up with only 99%. Sampling of birth dates confirmed. One of the oldest fighting chiefs was Big Road born 1834, one of the youngest warrior's Black Elk born 1863. So early teens to late 40's. I am sure Fred or someone else might be more definitive. Regards, Tom Where did you find these numbers, tubman? I remember many Indian participants in Fred`s book lacking birth years, may be my memory fails. Or is it somewhere else you found this? All the best, Noggy |
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Post by tubman13 on Apr 27, 2018 16:37:01 GMT -6
You are quite correct Noggy, I did this some time ago. Took all listed dates of birth in Fred's book, some only approximate/circa. Cross referenced names on this list where I could, as birth dates not listed. www.friendslittlebighorn.com/warriorsatlbh.htm
Questioned some folks on Native American Board. I also got a we bit of info at the museum at this reservation. sioux.org/ I spent several hours with the folks at the Cheyenne River Reservation on one trip to the LBH. A true researcher could have done better and would have visited other reservations.
As I said at the top of the above post it should not be considered definitive.
Regards,
Tom |
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Post by fuchs on Apr 27, 2018 23:44:04 GMT -6
You are quite correct Noggy, I did this some time ago. Took all listed dates of birth in Fred's book, some only approximate/circa. Cross referenced names on this list where I could, as birth dates not listed. www.friendslittlebighorn.com/warriorsatlbh.htm
Questioned some folks on Native American Board. I also got a we bit of info at the museum at this reservation. sioux.org/ I spent several hours with the folks at the Cheyenne River Reservation on one trip to the LBH. A true researcher could have done better and would have visited other reservations.
As I said at the top of the above post it should not be considered definitive.
Regards,
Tom Now that's a great piece of work! And possibly as close to "definitive" as anyone here will ever get. Just for clarification, are those the birthdates for all the names Fred listed for guys that might have been present at the time of the battle, or for those that most likely actually participated in the Custer and/or Reno fights? I once went through Fred's list, too, and collected all those names where both the fights they took part in and their tribal affiliation were known. (240 names, with some known duplicates, though). If you have not yet filtered your statistics for all Indians with known battle participation, comparing those lists would get an age distribution for the actual fighters without going completely thought the book again. lbh_warriors_fighting.txt (3.06 KB) |
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Post by noggy on Apr 28, 2018 4:30:52 GMT -6
You are quite correct Noggy, I did this some time ago. Took all listed dates of birth in Fred's book, some only approximate/circa. Cross referenced names on this list where I could, as birth dates not listed. www.friendslittlebighorn.com/warriorsatlbh.htm
Questioned some folks on Native American Board. I also got a we bit of info at the museum at this reservation. sioux.org/ I spent several hours with the folks at the Cheyenne River Reservation on one trip to the LBH. A true researcher could have done better and would have visited other reservations.
As I said at the top of the above post it should not be considered definitive.
Regards,
Tom Great work, tubman! All the best, Noggy |
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Post by tubman13 on Apr 28, 2018 5:07:17 GMT -6
Most names came from Fred's book. Touch the Clouds as an example listed, Meyers says he was at the battle, Reservation says he was not and could not have fought, but was a couple years older than Crazy Horse (late 1830's), not included. One fellow that was mentioned to me, was confirmed to me, I gave it to Fred, as confirmed, I can't recall it now. Several names confirmed in Wooden Leg, John Stands in Timber, "The Little Bighorn Remembered" by Herman Viola and "Black Elk Speaks". Even a scout who started out with Terry and GAC at FAL ended up fighting against him.
A little known publication "The Fighting North Brothers" was searched and yielded little of value. The Pawnee Scouts last real action was in the follow up to the LBH. Many of the scouts that joined Nelson, Merritt, and Crook confirmed participation.
From what I understand, is that if you can confirm they were with Big Roads band or if they surrendered with CH and they were of fighting age, they pretty much fought. I did not include every name in sampling, which was small.
I did this for me not the public. It was an outgrowth of soldiers ages and those enlisted in the year before the battle. Also of interest to me was the number of officers and NCO's on detached service and leave.
One crap shoot is as good as another.
Regards,
Tom |
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