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Post by magpie on Nov 1, 2015 10:20:38 GMT -6
Anybody ever figure out how far these bullets are going to skip? In the bad old days when prairie dogs were our high powered rifle fodder I seem to remember the bullets skipping at least a quarter mile behind our target. These guys were probably 16 inches above grade. I think one needs to consider target elevation, the elevation of the ground at target and the elevation of the muzzle as well as back stop elevation and bullet trajectory. I really think all of Fox's bullets came (decayed out) from the corpses (men and horses) and came from corpse shooting by Indians and were not "battle bullets". I think most bullets skipped town unless they lodged in a body. I think interpretation of bullets found needs rethinking.
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Post by tubman13 on Nov 1, 2015 11:14:22 GMT -6
Magpie,
Newer spire point, spritzer bullets, are lighter and have a much better ballistic coefficient. The 45-70 was a heavy round nose bullet, fired from a carbine, bullet drop is about 24" between 100 and 200 yds. and a total of nearly 77" by 300 yards.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Tom
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Post by magpie on Nov 1, 2015 14:26:33 GMT -6
Magpie, Newer spire point, spritzer bullets, are lighter and have a much better ballistic coefficient. The 45-70 was a heavy round nose bullet, fired from a carbine, bullet drop is about 24" between 100 and 200 yds. and a total of nearly 77" by 300 yards. Hope this helps. Regards, Tom Thanks Tom the trajectory data is helpfull. That's quite a drop almost miniballesque for a gun claiming 800 yards. But really someone would need to measure the skip and the bullet glancing off the ground. One day as a kid I hoped and tried to recover bullets but they seemed to go very far from initial contact. So if shooting at man on level ground 48" high or a rider 86" high the bullet should make first contact with the ground 150-400 yards beyond and skip along from there? If a kneeling shooter was shooting at a horsemen then it easily be 800 yards before first contact and then skip along? Just quessing on number didn't put a calculator to it and get the carbine/45-70 carbine load trajectory. It's the bounce, skipping stone that I don't know if it was ever measured by anyone. |
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Post by Beth on Nov 1, 2015 16:27:15 GMT -6
You bring up an interesting line of thought. However in order to know if a recovered bullet 'skipped' wouldn't you have to know exactly how it was recovered such as was it laying on the surface or was it buried in the ground and if it was buried in the ground at what angle was it laying?
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Post by magpie on Nov 1, 2015 21:56:15 GMT -6
You bring up an interesting line of thought. However in order to know if a recovered bullet 'skipped' wouldn't you have to know exactly how it was recovered such as was it laying on the surface or was it buried in the ground and if it was buried in the ground at what angle was it laying? on an individual basis yes but collectively no ( how it was burried by weather, mouse, hoof or packrat ). Bullet's have long been known to take crazy paths so I think you would just be able to draw inferences on the many. |
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Post by wild on Nov 2, 2015 1:56:03 GMT -6
As the rounds were no jacketed most would break up on impact with the ground also impact would change angle and direction of flight.
Cheers
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Post by AZ Ranger on Nov 2, 2015 6:59:09 GMT -6
I believe there is a study of the recovered bullets just can't remember where I read. I think the looked into angle of entry.
I think shot into soil a lead bullet might retain most of it weight. Shooting against steel would cause significant change in shape and loss of weight. Rocks would be somewhere between lose soil and steel.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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Post by montrose on Nov 2, 2015 7:13:52 GMT -6
Skipping is also a function of angle of fire. Due to the firing table of the 1873 carbine, low angle of fire would only be for close range shots. In addition flat terrain enhances skipping, so the valley would favor the badlands.
I do not see favorable conditions for skipping at LBH.
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Post by herosrest on Nov 6, 2015 9:14:44 GMT -6
Ducemus
You need to get up there and loose off a few thousand rounds from LSH towards the National Cemetary. Hot day.. hottest day. Ground baked hard aiming at targets popping up above ridge lines.... have fun!
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Post by magpie on Nov 11, 2015 9:52:50 GMT -6
DucemusYou need to get up there and loose off a few thousand rounds from LSH towards the National Cemetary. Hot day.. hottest day. Ground baked hard aiming at targets popping up above ridge lines.... have fun! I know but I need volunteers on horseback to hold the targets! |
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Post by herosrest on Nov 11, 2015 20:30:29 GMT -6
DucemusLima Bravo shooting range.............. it'll be a golf course next! 
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