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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 30, 2024 10:47:46 GMT -6
Godin? Whose "note" was that? Yours? So Goldin, here, may be showing point 2 is NOT Weir's Hill/point 7/where Custer was seen/saw the village/G/halted for 10mins…thanks, but we already knew that! I've been saying it for months! Point 2 is a joke! NO summit!! Goldin in a letter to Brady 1904 "As soon as this was discovered Custer rode over toward the river accompanied only by his orderly trumpeter, and stopped for a moment on the top of a high pinnacle, where we saw him wave his hat, apparently in salutation to some one in the distance, and then come dashing back toward the head of the column.."
And Benteen too huh? Cause THIS makes sense! "Some say (including Benteen) that a last hurrah was sounded and the companies galloped away again to 'cross the river and capture the camp'"Which companies were those? Huh where was Benteen?
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 30, 2024 10:49:26 GMT -6
I know it's difficult for you but Weip Point is a hill. A pointy hill and the highest one around. Horizon Ridge is a ridge (not a hill) and it is the highest Ridge. It really is. So you don't even know where your mystical ridge is?! Why would anyone else? Be specific, if you can remember. Pick ONE spot - any ONE spot. It can be a hill, a ridge, down a ravine - its YOUR label!
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Post by herosrest on Jan 30, 2024 10:54:03 GMT -6
J$!, take a deep breath. Take several. Calm down. Hold one of those deep breaths until you have counted up to eleven million and then return to rational discussion, please.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 30, 2024 10:59:16 GMT -6
I have to wonder now whether you realised that your avatar image shows ' Twin Peaks. You didn't realise it and here I was thinking that you were up there with some geniuses. Enjoy
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 30, 2024 11:42:35 GMT -6
Talk about nailing jelly - this isn’t hard. Whether you wish it to mean a high hill or a high ridge or THE highest hill at point 7, or at the high place almost a mile away at pt 9 - whatever - recall it is not 1876-1879…and you can just pick a location, ONE - and stick with it. It just helps navigation of your changing opinions to know what you at least think you are talking about. May clear up your confusion too if YOU knew! Here's pictures of Martin's Ridge; just below where DeWolf was killed...it is almost a mile from Weir Point.... You can see how far it is from Weir Point in this picture... So - where's yours?
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Post by herosrest on Jan 30, 2024 16:54:09 GMT -6
It is decidedly encouraging that you have taken the good advice and upped your game. Really well done with great improvement in your output. Now, it was and remains humanly impossible for DeRudio to have seen what he stated he saw, concerning his idea that he saw Custer on the bluffs. Who ever he saw, if he did, his conclusions about who it was are completely unreliable and would be excluded from evidence and consideration, at any trial, anywhere unless it was run by Mickey Mouse divorcing SWMBO (She who must be obeyed). Yours, and WMC's ideas that Custer was at Weir's Hill are entirely spurious and you have not yet stated which hill to his (Ryan) right, in the Company M line, dominated Reno's corral. I'd be greatful if you could give your ideas on which high hill that Ryan was referring to. Identifying people with the naked eye at 1,000 yards is beyond problematic because it is impossible. Yes, one might arrange the viewing but that is not the case with DeRudio and if he saw anything at all, then it stands uncorroborated as Custer, et al. Some participant information about observation from the Reno Corral. Letter to WMC of Aug. 4th, 1908 Page one and Page two - from a participant in the hilltop fight. Here's a visual on the problem you refuse to accept.Right. Moving on to the history of Medicine Tail's place. Woooooo................ ps - leave the pacs for McDougall. As to your difficulties with Goldin, he wrote an account of the battle which F.W. Benteen endorsed as the best he had read. Funny old World. Of course, FWB was by then becoming thoroughly nervous about ESG's eminence.
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 30, 2024 17:02:29 GMT -6
Thanks, but my game has always been tops - as I always rely on those there. My relying on facts is nothing new - its been months and months now. If you do not ignore the witnesses who were there, you could up your game. With so many in agreement, it is important you dont try to figure out why so many must be wrong just because they don't match what YOU think; match what you think to what SO MANY there said actually happened. When its confirmed so often, which will happen - Bingo! Sure, OK...and yet - somehow - DeRudio was right. Go figure. So clearly NOT impossible, or he made a REALLY GREAT guess. Ah corroborating witnesses - gotta love 'em! Startin' with Martin. Anyway - may be time to try coming up with a new "argument", yes? Sharp shooter Hill of course. Camp identified it, and located it, so there ya go. Sort of like "horizon ridge", but actually located for us, and real. Once again - dont make that mistake - they are not MY ideas. I wasn't there....they were. The company on the right of my company had a number of men killed in a few minutes. There was a high ridge on the right and an opening on the right of our lines, and one Indian in particular I must give credit for being a good shot.Diameter of wheel 42. Cir. 11'-1 1/4". 475 rpm. Where Custer turned to right out of Medicine Tail Coulee 4060. Where Martin probably left Custer 4452 or 4600. Mouth of South coulee 4890. Vincent Charley Coulee 5190. Sharpshooter Hill 5437. Retreat point 5460. K Co. line 5600. Benteen intrenchment 5656.SO its 250' from SSH to Reno retreat point (seems 600' from the high point), and over 1800' from mid-eastern rim of Reno Corral (K Co.). 1800' = AKA 600 yards... Here - see Donahue... We all understand the stories behind how this ridge got its name; John Ryan talks of an Indian sharpshooter up here. But Donahue added a few interesting points. Ryan said the sharpshooter hit three men from this location which is above and about 600 yards away from their position. The warrior was lining up his shots along a line of men lying perpendicular to his line of fire. This increased his chances of hitting one of them; nonetheless that’s a heck of a shot. “Some of the tour guides here think it was a woman shooting up here; it’s part of the Crow oral history,” Donahue told us. Then he asked the crowd, “By the way, do you know who named this Sharp Shooter’s Ridge?” A few guesses were offered, and then he told us the first time the name Sharpshooter Ridge appears was on a map drawn by Walter Camp.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 30, 2024 17:22:04 GMT -6
As you say, SSR was definately located and named. Horizon Ridge was and wasn't, to this day. You call it this and I call it that. You name it after a trumpeter who never went there and I use simple and utterly perfect logic for naming convention. We could settle for 'Ridge with no name' but that will confuse everyone except us. Sorry............ when is a ridge not a ridge? Could that possibly be when a trumpeter calls it a hill? Hell. let's have McAuliffe sort this one out!
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 30, 2024 17:24:00 GMT -6
Yep - so I have stated. We know where Sharpshooter hill is - but no one has any idea where "horizon ridge" is since you keep changing it. It will be up to you to tell us....if you know. Dont forget - I didn't name Martin's Ridge. Others here did years ago. I just found pictures of it - which is cool enough. So - we all KNOW where "Martin's Ridge" is - Martin told us almost exactly. As did others. AND there's those pictures, and maps! Martin did refer to and locate both - the highest hill/Weir's Hill/point 7, 'the high point', 'the very high hill', and 'the ridge' they crossed and where he saw Reno. WH/MR/SSH - all adjacent - see?
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Post by herosrest on Jan 30, 2024 17:35:25 GMT -6
I guess someone plucked your feathers. A couple of the better researchers took a look at Goldin - here's output from one - link. Yu can read for free by registering and they do not deluge inbox with bumph. Enjoy. The other author's research and conclusions are remarkable but can wait.
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 30, 2024 17:36:27 GMT -6
I know I mention about needding to baby-bird you, but is it with you and feathers/ducks?
You post a lot of pictures of ducks.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 30, 2024 17:37:19 GMT -6
Erm......... just got to your last post. There are two hills at '7'. That is - TWO hills - so there! Really. Two. They are both in your avatar image. Twin Peaks.
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Post by johnson1941 on Jan 30, 2024 17:45:16 GMT -6
Okaayy.. What I like is, despite many modern day people not knowing, finding or understanding what/where it was due to park land feature changes and reliance on modern data, THE Hill can be seen in at least 4 period pictures confirming where/what guys like Martin, DeRudio, Herendeen, Edgerly, scouts, WM Camp, etc described & the Wilson, Norris and 1891 maps showed - the high point/Weir's Hill/point 7 overlooking DeWolf grave, where the river is tight, near Hodgson marker, at the high ridge, just north of Reno stand. These Hoffman postcards with Godfrey and Camp COMING DOWN on Weir's Hill - shadows and all, river and all, and on the rocky Ridge WITH WEIR'S HILL in VIEW beyond the horse, via their locators/descriptors and the river curving in, are among the best, along with Hodgson/DeWolf & the NPS showing all of Martins Ridge. These guys nailed it a 100 years ago...
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Post by herosrest on Jan 31, 2024 13:07:14 GMT -6
Nice pulling together of your insights. However, there are two hills in the Weir Hill image just as there are two people on the nearest one - WMC and ESG. I showed you the terrain from the other end looking upriver from the highest hill. The one which is in view and behind WMC and ESG. I don't remember what the distance between them is but they are one of nature's little quirks and even fooled the 'Where Custer Fell' crew until they had an inspiration. Anyway, Weir Point is not Weir Hill, in your book. You have swallowed this fish and are swimming with it. Be that as it may, the terrain did and does nothing and it is rather the people that are of interest and the decisions by various people (in error) that at given times (relative to where they were and what they were doing - stuff was happening at Weir Hill. That is where you have arrived in considered opinion based in essence upon the efforts and yardstick of WMC. We can now advance into the realm of concurrency which is an ilk of battle study ignored as too difficult and troublesome to the greater good - in practice of never ever mind the quality but just split their sides. Ilfracombe is a small harbour town in Devon with breathtaking views of sea, rugged coastal paths and stunning scenery. Go visitWMC got stories from several scouts involved in the battle )possibly.......) some time before their afadavits were sworn before Judge Bede for publication by Orin G Libby. I do know there are two 'f's in the word but using just one makes pronunciation so much simpler and there is very much to be said for easy and especially when it places rugs under some of the 'by then' more established record. The entire set of accounts gained by OGL and WMC, offer a rat's nest soup of jumbled warrior's tales which are a delight to roll into the contemporary records and filter in immensely helpful and useful ways. To this end, rather than the wonderfully scrumptious moi tapping the tap, and issuing Firth (John Rupert) - here they be from Walter's Hammer, and jolly well done they are - hurrah. www.americanindian.net/custer/files/page_176.htmlHairy Moccasin, White, Little Sioux, Strike Two and so on and so forth, to ground the events of the valley fight into chaotic reality and underpin the waffle which Lt. DeRudio wandered into at Chicago. For such an oddly confused and disparate hotpot of daring do's, running them across and through timelines is one of this battle's absolutely fabulous 'must do' studies. It helps to have read through Libby three or four times before getting into the grit and nitty of it - but I tell you, I tell you this; you have have not studied this battle until understanding the Aricaree way. Soldier's were on the bluffs shooting up the Pony Stealers when they rode up the bluffs. Accepted wisdom is that that bunch of pony stealers (there were others) were on the bluffs whilst the battalion in the valley were skirmishing. They did not see Custer. It was their day day job. They did not see Custer anywhere - let alone at your Weir Hill. Where is Ryan's Hill, by the way - tp the right of the Company M defensive line on the bluffs and commanding the soldier positions. Where is that high hill? I'm not sure if I still have a work of days gone by, which teased the Twin Peaks thing from downriver. Hunting...... it would have been one of the CoF works, or maybe.......... darn it. Time is such a venipuncture, is it not?
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Post by herosrest on Jan 31, 2024 13:29:31 GMT -6
Yey COFCHThat was wonderfully lucky, hit it in the first reference album and the file remains - Behold The Columns of Fours projects (COF)
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