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Post by quincannon on Mar 6, 2015 23:31:56 GMT -6
I am going to bed now. Tinker Belle my 23 year old cat is meowing for he bedtime brushy-brushy, and will drive me batshit until she gets it.
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Post by Beth on Mar 6, 2015 23:37:41 GMT -6
You lost me on Mr. Chewing Gum.
Beth
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Post by Beth on Mar 6, 2015 23:38:26 GMT -6
I am going to bed now. Tinker Belle my 23 year old cat is meowing for he bedtime brushy-brushy, and will drive me batshit until she gets it. At 23, she should get what she wants. Give her an extra brush for me. Beth |
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Post by mac on Mar 7, 2015 6:27:56 GMT -6
For what it is worth I agree on the Crockett death scenario. Looking forward to more on this and I will have questions.
Cheers
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Post by Yan Taylor on Mar 7, 2015 7:35:21 GMT -6
I wonder just how high that wooden palisade wall was, in the couple of movies is looks like 5 or 6 ft as men can fire over it, but on some drawings it looks as high as some of the outer walls with a firing step. Here is a nice link showing the old place mixed in with the new; linkI wonder how these boys got on?  Ian. |
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Post by quincannon on Mar 7, 2015 9:50:35 GMT -6
Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna = Mr. Chewing Gum Many, including myself believe the popularity of chewing gum was by his effort, he having cornered the market on the base ingredient.
How high the palisade: Don't know. It was constructed most likely by Cos in the fall of 1835 if not before. It was probably improved upon by the defenders. Best guess is about six to seven feet high with a firing step, and covered in front by a makeshift abates of felled trees. It probably consisted of two parallel rows of logs, filled between by packed dirt.
The essential thing to know about the compound itself is that after the battle the Mexicans tore down most of the place, save what you can see today. They obviously did not want the place used again for a fort. There were a couple of what were before, and became afterward private residences along the west wall that still stood after the Mexicans were through, and at least one of them stayed until the late 19th century. There was also the south barracks that was left standing, and it was later used as a jail. It too was removed in the late 19th century, and today the basic outline and location can be determined by a huge flower pot at the south end of Alamo Plaza.
You can see both the palisade and the south barracks in the model that Ian posted, to the left.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 7, 2015 10:12:14 GMT -6
Easy question today.
Who was thought to be The Yellow Rose of Texas? What part did she supposedly play in these events? Why was she referred to as the Yellow Rose? What is named for her (other than the song)? Where does this structure stand?
It's easy to answer, if you recall her name. Extensive material on the internet about her, but no fair peeking.
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Post by Beth on Mar 7, 2015 10:17:08 GMT -6
Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna = Mr. Chewing Gum Many, including myself believe the popularity of chewing gum was by his effort, he having cornered the market on the base ingredient. How high the palisade: Don't know. It was constructed most likely by Cos in the fall of 1835 if not before. It was probably improved upon by the defenders. Best guess is about six to seven feet high with a firing step, and covered in front by a makeshift abates of felled trees. It probably consisted of two parallel rows of logs, filled between by packed dirt. The essential thing to know about the compound itself is that after the battle the Mexicans tore down most of the place, save what you can see today. They obviously did not want the place used again for a fort. There were a couple of what were before, and became afterward private residences along the west wall that still stood after the Mexicans were through, and at least one of them stayed until the late 19th century. There was also the south barracks that was left standing, and it was later used as a jail. It too was removed in the late 19th century, and today the basic outline and location can be determined by a huge flower pot at the south end of Alamo Plaza. You can see both the palisade and the south barracks in the model that Ian posted, to the left. I had forgotten about our conversation about chicle and for some reason couldn't get Wrigley out of my head. Must of had spring training on my mind. It would be kind of cool if they could actually project the Alamo as it was on the surrounding buildings at night kind of like this link |
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Post by Beth on Mar 7, 2015 10:27:44 GMT -6
Easy question today. Who was thought to be The Yellow Rose of Texas? What part did she supposedly play in these events? Why was she referred to as the Yellow Rose? What is named for her (other than the song)? Where does this structure stand? It's easy to answer, if you recall her name. Extensive material on the internet about her, but no fair peeking. Dang it. I know I just read this a week or so ago. I was kind of surprised at how different the words were from the modern version. Beth |
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Post by dave on Mar 7, 2015 10:37:38 GMT -6
QC
I seem to remember that Houston sent her to San Antonio to be spy. Also wasn't she a mulatto?
Found my copy of A Time to Stand. Lord deals with the Crockett story and this was published in 1961.
Hell I can't read Lord's at the same time rereading Fred's. Do you think Fred has some Cliff Notes I could use?
I am on important business this morning. With the temps to be in the mid 50's today I am accompanying my 2 granddaughters ages 5 and 6 to the Memphis Zoo. I am to learn more about the eyegergeritors (sp) and relaphants. Who knows they may have some new animals on view. I always learn something knew with Caroline and Reagan.
Sorry y'all wont be able to make the trip it would do everyone a world of good to get out that old dusty history and deal with important things as what snacks do we have and can I get a ice cream cone. We haven't even left yet. I do believe I am learning to be an S 4, is that right QC?
Regards
Dave
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Post by Beth on Mar 7, 2015 10:55:40 GMT -6
QC I seem to remember that Houston sent her to San Antonio to be spy. Also wasn't she a mulatto? Found my copy of A Time to Stand. Lord deals with the Crockett story and this was published in 1961. Hell I can't read Lord's at the same time rereading Fred's. Do you think Fred has some Cliff Notes I could use? I am on important business this morning. With the temps to be in the mid 50's today I am accompanying my 2 granddaughters ages 5 and 6 to the Memphis Zoo. I am to learn more about the eyegergeritors (sp) and relaphants. Who knows they may have some new animals on view. I always learn something knew with Caroline and Reagan. Sorry y'all wont be able to make the trip it would do everyone a world of good to get out that old dusty history and deal with important things as what snacks do we have and can I get a ice cream cone. We haven't even left yet. I do believe I am learning to be an S 4, is that right QC? Regards Dave I can't think of a better experience than taking a 5 and 6 year old to the zoo. Have lots of fun! |
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Post by quincannon on Mar 7, 2015 11:09:48 GMT -6
A Time to Stand by Walter Lord is the essential first book to read for newcomers to the Alamo story. The first few pages of Chapter 1 put the Alamo in perspective as not only a Texas story, but additionally an American and world-wide story, of free men standing on their own legs and saying -- That's enough d**n it, you will go no further.
Emily Morgan was an indentured servant. Most about her is the stuff of legend. Supposedly it was she who was warming the sheets with Santa Anna as the Texians were launching their attack at San Jacinto. I highly doubt she was sent by Houston, but that legend does stand, and it's a good one so why dispute it, for we need a little legend to spice up fact.
She was a mulatto, or probably more correctly a Quadroon. Those mixed race folks in that day were referred to as High Yellow, thus the name. Whenever I picture her I think of Lena Horne.
Now consider this. In a segregated Texas of the mid last century, a hotel was built and named for her. I understand, although I have never seen it that a portrait of her is in the lobby. That hotel is on Houston Street, San Antonio just about where the north east corner of the wall that surrounded Alamo Plaza.
Yes Dave if you are the snack and ice cream man you are in charge of unit logistics and you would be the logistics staff officer S-4.
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Post by dave on Mar 7, 2015 19:48:40 GMT -6
Back from the zoo and I saw a new animal it is hip a pooty moose and they feed it
jack o' lanterns aka pumpkin.
Did a good job on the S 4 position went to Corky's BBQ had a split order of ribs 1/2 wet rub 1/2 dry rubs.
Now back to the Alamo. In Lord's "A Time to Stand" he mentions and cites de la Pena's diary as being published in 1836 in Mexico. He believed that it was censored by he government. His 1st printing was in 1961 and my copy is 1978.
Did he mention the question of Crockett's death and how it happened?
The fit hit the sham in about 1977 did it not?
The diary was found in 1955 and not widely read and known till?
Looking for more information about Crockett and the Alamo.
Regards
Dave
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Post by quincannon on Mar 8, 2015 8:11:47 GMT -6
It has been awhile sine I have read Lord. Off hand I can't recall him mentioning de la Pena. I checked the internet just now and see mention of the diary being published by Texas A and M in 1975 in English. My recollection is having a copy of With Santa Anna in Texas, the so called diary earlier than that. I don't read Spanish and I know the book I had or have was in English. Before my daughter moved to San Antonio I only visited in 63 and 64, 78, and 85. It's possible I picked it up in 78,but I just don't recall the opportunity, as I had my whole family with me at the time, and I recall being there alone when I purchased it.
I will look for mention of de la Pena in Lord today.
The go to guy for Crockett is a fellow named Allan Weiner on the Alamo Studies Forum. Lives in Montgomery Country, Maryland - Gaithersburg - Rockville area I think. Very nice guy. He wrote a book on Crockett a few years ago.
de la Pena was a trouble maker, and get the impression he was also a pretty boy.
I think you are correct that the diary started to have impact around 1980. A lot of the Texas can do no wrong crowd objected to its contents, and some had apoplexy over it. Don't think anyone invited anyone to the dueling oaks over it but it was close run. Problem is that I was not paying much attention to the Alamo or Custer or anything approaching in depth study in those day, as I was to busy with the real army.
The bottom line for me is that de la Pena was with the Tolucas,as a staff officers and the Tolucas were decimated by Texian and friendly fire, so I would have thought him having little time or opportunity to know that Crockett specifically was executed, although he might have some here say about executions taking place.
My thought on the issue is he heard from a guy who heard from a guy.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 8, 2015 8:52:46 GMT -6
Lord does mention the incident on Page 175, then on page 206 goes into the whole did Crockett surrender issue. On 175 he mentions de la Pena being nearby with Almonte (who was Santa Anna's go to guy) and says they were both told it was Crockett, and five others, and they were found hiding under mattresses. There are other accounts as well.
Lord did a lot of research in Mexico, and mentions the Garza 1955 version. Almonte reportedly mentioned it, and his mention was published in the Detroit Free Press based on an 1836 letter to that paper by a George Dolson.
I think I will go with Francisco Ruiz. You are correct in what you said above though. It does not matter . The guy who would know for sure is Castrillon and he was KIA at San Jacinto.
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