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Post by fred on Feb 8, 2015 15:40:17 GMT -6
Why was the 7th so low on officers? Headquarters—1LT (RQM) Henry James Nowlan—On detached service as AAQM on Terry’s staff. COL (bvt MG) Samuel Davis Sturgis—Accompanied the regiment to the south, but when orders came for redeployment to the Dakotas, Sturgis was sent on detached duty. Detached to St. Louis as Superintendent, Mounted Recruiting Service. MAJ Lewis Merrill—Just before the Summer Campaign of 1876, he was sent on detached service to Philadelphia as Chief-of-Staff to Gen. Joseph R. Hawley, the President of the Centennial Exhibition. MAJ Joseph Greene Tilford—On extended sick leave at Fort Rice for rheumatism. Company B—1LT William Thomas Craycroft—Went on detached duty prior to the 1876 campaign. Ordered to appear before Retiring Board, May 18, 1876. At Fort Lincoln. Company D—1LT/CPT James Montgomery Bell—On six months leave since March 24, 1876. Promoted to captain to fill vacancy (F Company) left by the death of Yates at the LBH. Company E—CPT Charles Stilliman Ilsley—Detached service as ADC to BG John Pope since January 30, 1868. His position in the Seventh Cavalry was essentially nominal until August 1879 when he joined the regiment at Fort Meade. Company F—1LT Henry Jackson—Detached service in Washington, D. C., since August 9, 1871 (had not served with company since February 28, 1868). 2LT Charles William Larned—Detached service at West Point since July 18, 1874 (had not served with the company since August 4, 1873). Detached as Aide-de-Camp to President Grant in July 1874, then appointed Professor of Drawing at the USMA, and even though he was appointed to fill the vacancy left by Henry Jackson, he remained at the Academy, resigning from the regiment and active service in September 1876. Company G—CPT John Eaton Tourtellotte—Detached service as colonel and A-d-C to GEN W. T. Sherman since December 31, 1870. Company H—2LT Ernest Albert Garlington—Graduated from USMA on June 15, 1876, and assigned to Company H, vice LT DeRudio, who was promoted to Company E. An exemplary soldier and an ideal cavalryman. Company I—2LT Andrew Humes Nave—Sick leave from July 14, 1874 – August 11, 1876, because of injuries suffered shortly after the Black Hills Expedition. Company K—CPT Owen Hale (“Holy Owen”)—General Recruiting Duty at St. Louis, MO, since September 11, 1874. Descendant of Nathan Hale. Company L—CPT Michael Vincent Sheridan—He joined the Seventh (L) in early 1867, but was again appointed aide to his brother, July 1867. Detached service as ADC to LTG Philip Henry Sheridan since February 18, 1871. 1LT Charles Braden (“Old Gothic”)—Solidly built and very reliable. Braden had been on sick leave since October 5, 1875. 2LT Edwin Philip Eckerson—Appointed to Company L, vice LT Braden (promoted), May 2, 1876, but had not yet joined unit, being “temporarily” replaced by LT Crittenden. At Fort Lincoln. Joined Seventh Cavalry on the Yellowstone on August 2, 1876. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by Beth on Feb 8, 2015 16:01:39 GMT -6
Fred you amaze me. Do you always have the answers I need ready so you can cut and paste from documents/Participants or does all your reseach give you the ability to have it running around in your brain available for instant recall?
Is keeping someone on detached service while on the roster for the 7th an offical way to fudge numbers to make the 7th look ready to go incase they are needed? Did everyone do it at this time?
Why when you look at all the peoople who were on leave or detached duty wasn't Reno allowed to go home when his wife died?
Beth
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Post by chris on Feb 8, 2015 19:35:53 GMT -6
Why when you look at all the peoople who were on leave or detached duty wasn't Reno allowed to go home when his wife died? Beth Beth, I missed this earlier and what a good question. I've read he wasn't granted leave. Anyone know why not? Best, c.
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Post by dave on Feb 8, 2015 20:02:45 GMT -6
Marcus Reno seems like the guy who never caught a break. If it could go wrong it did for him. No one would ever select him to be on their team because the dark cloud around him. History was not kind to Major Reno. Regards Dave
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 20:21:44 GMT -6
Why when you look at all the peoople who were on leave or detached duty wasn't Reno allowed to go home when his wife died? Beth Beth, I missed this earlier and what a good question. I've read he wasn't granted leave. Anyone know why not? Best, c. He wasn't granted leave to attend the funeral, but I believe following her death he did take an extended leave and returned home.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 20:25:10 GMT -6
Marcus Reno seems like the guy who never caught a break. If it could go wrong it did for him. No one would ever select him to be on their team because the dark cloud around him. History was not kind to Major Reno. Regards Dave Wasn't he second in command to GAC at LBH? Didn't he take over the 7th Cav after LBH? Someone selected him for the team. He had plenty of opportunity to write his own history and was found wanting.
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Post by Beth on Feb 8, 2015 20:47:47 GMT -6
Beth, I missed this earlier and what a good question. I've read he wasn't granted leave. Anyone know why not? Best, c. He wasn't granted leave to attend the funeral, but I believe following her death he did take an extended leave and returned home. Travel wise I wonder if one could travel between Montana and PA in time for a funeral. --just idle wondering: time vrs embalming. Reno is a sad story but I think sometimes that people who expect to have the worse happen to them, often do--sort of the opposite of Custer and his luck. I don't know if it is because people like don't inspire others with their confidence and in the end if they become in charge becoming to be a bit of a martinet to remain in control. If they go through life not being in charge they can be perfectly productive people. Beth
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2015 20:52:39 GMT -6
He wasn't granted leave to attend the funeral, but I believe following her death he did take an extended leave and returned home. Travel wise I wonder if one could travel between Montana and PA in time for a funeral. --just idle wondering: time vrs embalming. Reno is a sad story but I think sometimes that people who expect to have the worse happen to them, often do--sort of the opposite of Custer and his luck. I don't know if it is because people like don't inspire others with their confidence and in the end if they become in charge becoming to be a bit of a martinet to remain in control. If they go through life not being in charge they can be perfectly productive people. Beth What is it about Reno's story that you find sad?
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Carl
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Post by Carl on Feb 8, 2015 21:38:36 GMT -6
Myles Moylan is a puzzle to me. He must have had soldierly qualities but.... He enlisted in 1857 and by May 1861 was lst Sgt of Co C, 2nd Dragoons. He was at Wilsons Creek in Aug 1861 with Sturgis (it is possible there were no commissioned officers in his Company). Commissioned in 1862 after Shiloh, at Gettysburg, then dismissed in 1863. Ended up as a Captain Brevet Major of volunteers. Enlisted in 1866, made the original Sgt Maj of the 7th. Commissioned again in 1867 (possiby with help from Custer). Medal of Honor 1894 for Bear Paw in 1877. Retired as Major in 1893, Died in 1909. Most retired offiers who had served in the Civil War were promoted 1 rank on the retired list in 1904 - but not Moylan. Also he married Charlotte Calhoun (the Calhouns were more or less prominent).
He did not perform well on June 25, 1876. Was that just a bad day? Or is there more than meets the eye for this man?
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Post by Beth on Feb 8, 2015 21:51:37 GMT -6
Travel wise I wonder if one could travel between Montana and PA in time for a funeral. --just idle wondering: time vrs embalming. Reno is a sad story but I think sometimes that people who expect to have the worse happen to them, often do--sort of the opposite of Custer and his luck. I don't know if it is because people like don't inspire others with their confidence and in the end if they become in charge becoming to be a bit of a martinet to remain in control. If they go through life not being in charge they can be perfectly productive people. Beth What is it about Reno's story that you find sad? Reno was a brave, gallant man and a good officer who was unfairly labeled a coward and a drunk by what we now would call tabloid or yellow journalists. JHis record in the CW is good enough that he was brevated to a Brg. General even though most people seem to have forgotten that today. Ever wonder why history still refers to Custer as the General but not Reno--both men held the rank after all. Every evidence points to the fact that he loved his wife and together they balanced each other. After her death though His in-laws denied him custody of his son, in part because he was unable to return for her funeral. Can you imagine how Custer would have handled being denied attending Libby's funeral if the shoe was on the other foot? I believe that is when Reno's drinking grew worse, but he surely wasn't the only person seperated from his family, newly widowed, and lonely to self medicate with a bottle. Reno seems to have been a person who spent his life working in and with the 'system.' It must have been galling to have to work with someone like Custer who flaunted the system. It might have made for what today we would call a toxic workplace. Also I wonder if his injury from 1863 was ever fixed, or as most hernia repairs did at the time--relapsed. (I have been reading up just to check). If it had relapsed, then like many others in the cavalry with their worn out bodies would have been in perhaps constant pain. I can't even imagine what that would have been like -especially day after day riding a horse. Beth
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Post by welshofficer on Feb 9, 2015 4:19:05 GMT -6
Phil's son was off playing, several were on detached duty, several on leave. Regards, Tom Tom,
I don't think Phil's brother had actually served with the regiment for many years. His "L" company command really was nominal.
Ian,
The problem was not just the officers that were not present. Many of the officers that were present were detached from their companies to perform other expedition/regimental duties (Hodgson, Varnum, Wallace etc). And of course TWC acting as ADC to his brother, leaving C Company to just 2nd Lt Harrington with 1st Lt Calhoun covering for the 3 absent officers of L Company. A few of us on this board believe that the "right wing" collapsed due to C Company getting into trouble....
Beth,
Once GAC detached Reno (Major) and Benteen (senior Captain), the next senior officer remaining with GAC was Keogh. He had a year's seniority on Yates, within the "right wing", whatever the meritocracy.
Detached service was a general problem of the era. If you think the 7th Cavalry were short of officers, take a look at some of the EIC's Bengal Army regiments in 1857....
WO
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Post by tubman13 on Feb 9, 2015 4:35:34 GMT -6
WO, thanks for correction, I think he was living large in Chicago, DC and I think toured Europe with Phil.
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Post by welshofficer on Feb 9, 2015 5:03:08 GMT -6
Tom,
Either way, L Company had no officers so Calhoun was stripped out of C Company despite TWC acting as GAC's ADC.
So the Keogh "battalion" had 4 lieutenants commanding the 3 companies, inclusive of the 1 eyed infantryman.
Yates had 3 lieutenants for his 2 companies, but I am not sure if any of them were actually with their host company.
WO
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Post by Yan Taylor on Feb 9, 2015 5:54:25 GMT -6
Hi Justin, the C Company rout was probable the key that unlocked the Keogh position, even though warriors may have already flanked them by using the terrain as cover, L Company would have had to shift their base of fire to cover the C Company survivors and stem the influx of Indians chasing them, this pause in fire would had allowed the warriors that had made their way around to Calhoun’s left, to advance and before you know it L Company was pressed from more than one angle, so maybe it was L Companies left flank that was compromised while they covered C Company, once the Indians started to get behind them the panic would start as this would separate them from their horses.
This leads us to what we were talking about the other day, the company being the smallest fighting unit, if Calhoun had his men in two platoons (one led by Crittenden and one by 1st Sgt Butler*) then he could split his base of fire, this may only be around 15 men each line, but again it shows how isolated these companies were and the ground they had to cover, and L company was the largest available to either Custer or Keogh.
* if 1st Sgt Butler was already dead then this may fall to either Sgt Cashan or Sgt Warren
Ian.
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Post by mac on Feb 9, 2015 6:20:21 GMT -6
The first time I looked at a map I felt that the Calhoun position was not sustainable for any length of time due to the nature of the terrain. Sure C Co was the first domino to fall but as soon as the Indians decided to attack it was just a matter of time before weight of numbers would take that position. Once they were in position any concerted effort by the Indians would have been successful as they could attack from multiple directions due to the terrain. Despite what anyone may say they had enough "smarts" to have figured that out and enough courage to eventually push their numerical advantage. Cheers
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