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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 18:47:43 GMT -6
Chapter 1 of Fred's book down. Has the makings of a great read.
My first question after Chapter 1.
Given Custer's past, why did Terry decide to accompany Gibbon and not Custer. Had he done so, they would probably have turned towards Tullock's Creek and the battle would have taken on a completely different dynamic.
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Post by montrose on Jan 13, 2015 18:53:31 GMT -6
The lines of communication for the Dakota Department was along the Yellowstone River. Remember Terry was not just commanding Gibbon and Custer. He had the riverboats and various attached units manning the depots he had established. SO Terry put himself where he could best provide command and control of all of his moving parts. I addition, by staying near the river, he was in position to maintain communications with Sheridan and Sherman.
I think he was where he should have been.
Consider this. COL Gibbon was the second in command of the department. What if he had sent Gibbon in command of the 7th patrol?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2015 19:16:43 GMT -6
Thanks. Sounds plausible. But they were going to the same place ultimately so maybe there was something else.
Do you think Gibbon would have turned towards Tullock's Creek? How did his record stack up against GAC?
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Post by welshofficer on Jan 13, 2015 20:10:21 GMT -6
(1) Terry was no cavalryman - look at his ACW record, A specialist in besieging fixed fortifications. He wasn't summoned to Washington with Sheridan and Crook.
(2) The 7th wasn't within Gibbons command at Fort Ellis.
(3) Check out Gibbons health from 21-27 June 1876.
Nobody was to turn towards Tullock's Creek, other than the scout/guide allocated by Terry. The only question is whether another commander would have crossed the divide (1) without sending scouts down Tullock's Creek, and (2) especially without ascertaining whether the hostiles had turned south or north upon entering the LBH.
Another GAC gamble as, if the hostiles had turned south up the LBH, he would have placed the 7th between the hostiles and Terry/Gibbon/Brisbin.
WO |
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Post by quincannon on Jan 14, 2015 10:32:01 GMT -6
John Gibbon----- Company grade combat experienced officer in the Mexican war. Field Artilleryman by branch and training. Artillery instructor. Commanded the Iron Brigade, two different divisions, and two different corps.
The best judge of John Gibbon's ability is best found among the confederates. Usually they wanted no part of black hats
Very ill during the period WO cited.
Terry was there to command the whole. His place was along the Yellowstone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 17:33:11 GMT -6
(1) Terry was no cavalryman - look at his ACW record, A specialist in besieging fixed fortifications. He wasn't summoned to Washington with Sheridan and Crook.
(2) The 7th wasn't within Gibbons command at Fort Ellis.
(3) Check out Gibbons health from 21-27 June 1876.
Nobody was to turn towards Tullock's Creek, other than the scout/guide allocated by Terry. The only question is whether another commander would have crossed the divide (1) without sending scouts down Tullock's Creek, and (2) especially without ascertaining whether the hostiles had turned south or north upon entering the LBH.
Another GAC gamble as, if the hostiles had turned south up the LBH, he would have placed the 7th between the hostiles and Terry/Gibbon/Brisbin.
WO His orders were to "thoroughly examine the upper part of Tullock's Creek". |
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Post by welshofficer on Jan 15, 2015 17:45:41 GMT -6
SF,
The upper part being the emphasis.
Why do you think Terry ordered that?
Why do you think that GAC had George Herendeen with him...?
WO
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 19:11:33 GMT -6
SF, The upper part being the emphasis. Why do you think Terry ordered that? Why do you think that GAC had George Herendeen with him...? WO Thanks to Fred's book.... Herendeen was to scout and report findings to Terry. Verify Creek was open, non-hostile and viable path, giving him options. Although he probably had made his mind up hours before, GAC decision not to scout is the first indication that he is "going off-road" and writing his own script. Fred's book does a great job of putting you in the moment. |
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Post by welshofficer on Jan 15, 2015 20:06:54 GMT -6
GAC doesn't give Terry a Tullock's Creek easier approach route, and he crosses the divide between the Rosebud and the LBH without establishing the hostiles have turned north after they crossed the divide (another gamble).
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Post by Beth on Jan 15, 2015 20:29:14 GMT -6
SF, The upper part being the emphasis. Why do you think Terry ordered that? Why do you think that GAC had George Herendeen with him...? WO Thanks to Fred's book.... Herendeen was to scout and report findings to Terry. Verify Creek was open, non-hostile and viable path, giving him options. Although he probably had made his mind up hours before, GAC decision not to scout is the first indication that he is "going off-road" and writing his own script. Fred's book does a great job of putting you in the moment. There is a reason so many of us recommend it. It is also about as neutral as you can get and handles all of the participants of the battle. So many other books are written to emphasis the author's view and/or to sell books. They rely on controversity to sell and end up making real people into what becomes 1 or 2 dimensional characters. Beth |
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Post by fred on Jan 16, 2015 7:29:50 GMT -6
Beth and Scarface,
I appreciate your comments about the book. It is comments like these that mean so much to me. When I add them to those from others on these boards, it makes the whole thing worthwhile for me.
Thanks... to all of you, once again.
Best wishes,
Fred.
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