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Post by quincannon on Dec 10, 2014 20:06:13 GMT -6
Fred: Will you do me the great favor of going over to the other board and explain to all assembled your words on Page 62 of your text. You and I both know that "drawing them out" is not the same as the military definition of "fix". It's your book and it is being interpreted as your words mean fix.
Using the proper definition of "the fix" meaning --- By fire and maneuver or both suppress the force being fixed to the point where they CAN NOT MANEUVER. Thus it has ever been since ancient times. Using the proper definition then even Custer and Keogh were not fixed until the last extremity.
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Post by Beth on Dec 10, 2014 20:23:23 GMT -6
Beth Hoya (Greek) Saxa (Latin) = WHAT ROCKS. Such are the benefits of a Jesuit education. Sister Mary Sacred Heart and her fellow compatriots were PBVM. We were to take Latin starting in high school. Unfortunately, a tornado blew the Junior High/high school building away when I was in 5th grade. Beth
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Post by quincannon on Dec 10, 2014 20:30:07 GMT -6
Well I don't recall what PBVM means, but Sister Saint Malevolent was BITCH. Is that similar?
The value of a Catholic School disciplined education cannot be overstated. While I might take exception to their 1950's vintage methods which were, what's the word, oh yes brutal, you cannot argue with the overall product.
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Post by Beth on Dec 10, 2014 21:05:03 GMT -6
Well I don't recall what PBVM means, but Sister Saint Malevolent was BITCH. Is that similar? The value of a Catholic School disciplined education cannot be overstated. While I might take exception to their 1950's vintage methods which were, what's the word, oh yes brutal, you cannot argue with the overall product. Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Sister Mary Sacred Heart was the principal most was noted form whipping a kid with a wire hanger when they didn't hang up their coat in the cloak room. She also sprayed antipersperant in a group of 4th grade boys eyes when they were being too loud in the locker room after PE. (one was my younger brother). I agree about the overall product, when we had to go into the community public school we were way ahead of the other students on most subjects. Beth
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Post by quincannon on Dec 10, 2014 21:12:09 GMT -6
I am sure the Blessed Virgin would be most proud of her. I still carry a scar on my face to this very day from one of her kind.
Beating children is a sickness of the mind. It has nothing to do with discipline. It has to do with control exercised by one human being over another. As such it is not far removed from rape. It is simple perversion, conducted by a pervert.
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Post by tubman13 on Dec 11, 2014 4:48:11 GMT -6
Well Chuck, I guess I could ask how you really feel. Draconian methods, maybe, but I survived some of that treatment. Ear flicking by Latin teacher and an eraser with much dust lobbed by an irate history teacher were some of my favorite. They did in fact get your attention back to the subject at hand. An English teacher once stood in front of the door and told us the only way we were leaving before he damn well said we could was over him or out a second story window, after 5 of us jumped he moved in hysterics and allowed the rest of the class to leave. I think he was afraid someone would hurt themselves. The joys of an all boys private institution! Walked 5 hours worth of demerits around a tree with four friends for that stunt.
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Dec 11, 2014 8:11:59 GMT -6
Well I had a brass studded Crucifix (of all things), with the intention of doing harm, hit me in the face, penetrating through the lip, and to the gum line, the scar from which stays with me. I rose up and pounded the Christian Brother into next week. I was later told by the school principal that I must suffer, as Christ suffered, as I bled all over his floor. That is why I graduated from public instead of Catholic high school. Chris and I attended the same high school and he tells me a new group of brothers took over sometime between those two momentous events in Catholic history.
There is a great difference between discipline and brutality. If you can't instill discipline by the force of your own personality, then you have no business being in any position of trust and responsibility. Brutality is always counterproductive. The job of a teacher is to bring out and foster the best in a person or student. Brutality only brings out the worst.
We tell these various tales, and the younger among us are somewhat shocked, for this is not tolerated today. Those that do this type of thing should have, and today do, go to jail and stay there. They are child molesters and abusers, but most of all perverted human beings.
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Post by montrose on Dec 11, 2014 8:38:23 GMT -6
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Post by quincannon on Dec 11, 2014 8:40:31 GMT -6
Yes Tom, Chris, Beth, and I missed burning at the stake Will, but not by much.
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Post by fred on Dec 11, 2014 8:42:50 GMT -6
Fred: Will you do me the great favor of going over to the other board and explain to all assembled your words on Page 62 of your text. You and I both know that "drawing them out" is not the same as the military definition of "fix". It's your book and it is being interpreted as your words mean fix. Chuck, I am not going to get involved in another of these semantics wars, especially with people who may, (a) be friends; or (b) have no clue what the military is like; or (c) misinterpret what I have written... either in the book or on these or other boards. It is not worth my time or effort. Besides, my eyes glaze over every time I see certain words and "fix" has entered that category. I think, before you got here, we went into all that nonsense when Clair still posted here... remember, Steve?!!... with "advance guard," "rear guard," and stuff like that. It is a no-win debate. I am sure, however, Custer never used the phrase "fix and..."... whatever, and to me, that is all that matters. As for whatever is on page 62, I do not know how it is being interpreted or what, on that page, is being mis-interpreted. This book isn't for everyone, I made that abundantly clear in the preface. Those who know me have my e-mail address or can post any questions on this board and/or the other. I will be very happy to answer them, but I will not get into a debate regarding my views. I believe-- and the publisher seems to have agreed-- my views are clearly stated, and at this point-- unless more and better evidence appears-- those views are pretty much etched in stone. As for Catholic school discipline... I never went to a Catholic primary school. My Catholic school education began in high school. Corporal punishment was rare, but not unheard of. It generally consisted of one Brother-- Brother Hawk, was his name-- whacking you on the knuckles or on the top of the head (and not some brutal bash!!) with his ruler. My own personal opinion is that it is really unnecessary and a more effective method is to simply send the offender home... or kick his or her miserable ass out of school. Private schools aren't for fools and the best discipline I can think of is booting someone out after Daddy-boy has paid up the tuition bill for the year. You want discipline...? The good old $$$$$ will provide all you need. My high school is considered a top prep school (though "Preparatory" is not in its name) and my college's reputation speaks for itself, especially my particular "school" within the university. Both schools filled all my needs and whenever the discussion arises about education, I cite those two as examples of what an education should be. Some how, that seems to shut every mouth in the room and the discussions turn to other things. The irony is that every now and then I read these critiques on the Internet about my high school... how it is too rigid, too dogmatic, too this, too that... yet these idiots who criticize keep their dumbass sons there for all four years. Plenty of other schools in the area, boys!! Gotta be doin' something right!!! Personally, I wouldn't trade my high school education for anything else. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by montrose on Dec 11, 2014 8:51:16 GMT -6
Reference: Fred's book, page 156. Map of C Company charge.
Fred's map illustrates my own view of the C Co charge. The company charged way too far from Calhoun hill and then stopped and dismounted, then retreated.
I believe the most likely reason they stopped was not because that was a good defensive position, it was horrible. I believe they had taken casualties to men and horses, and halted to evacuate wounded. Things fell apart.
I also believe, in a long post from a few years back, that the charge was like punching a fist into a swarm of bees. By going so far they had put many Indians behind them. Lame White Man was not looking at their flank, he was looking at their rear. Look at the spur due north of the C Co halt. Indians were on that ridge, and infiltrating in the draw behind it. This was a natural position to attack into C Company rear.
Note that C Company did not retreat the way they came. Instead they retreated directly away from the spur. They could only return to Calhoun Hill via the Finley-Finkle ridge terrain feature. And even this required a group to do a die in place on the ridge. Again, dismounted men and wounded men may have forced this actions. NCOs died here doing their duty to the end, and I suspect Harrington died in this area as well.
Nice work, Fred.
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Post by tubman13 on Dec 11, 2014 8:53:38 GMT -6
Nor would I Fred.
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Dec 11, 2014 8:53:45 GMT -6
Your call Fred. It was unfair of me too ask you.
Military terminology is not semantics. Were it so anyone would be free to interpret meaning. That is just not so.
I must say your choice of friend is somewhat suspect.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Dec 11, 2014 8:57:33 GMT -6
I went to a Catholic School and got hit with everything but the kitchen sink, it was mainly down to what lesson you had at the time and the teacher involved, some used canes and some used straps, the woodwork teacher would use anything close to hand, the gym master would use a training shoe, I got caned one day for having a warm by the boilers at the rear of the school, crazy!
Ian.
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Post by tubman13 on Dec 11, 2014 9:02:13 GMT -6
I would recommend a truce between this Board and the other. All entitled to their opinions, I will admit I have visited only once. I find no need and I spend enough time here.
Regards, Tom
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