Quality Officer Cadre?

[tubman13]

When I first joined this board Chuck asked me if I was writing a book. I said I was not, I still am not, but at one point I had drawn up outlines for a novel(maybe screen play) and a serious study of Custer's officers. I am going to pick on a few officers here. I will not list sources here, nor will I list all info on officers, I will also not list all officers studied. I will admit a negative approach here. The interesting thing about many of the junior officers engaged at LBH is that they went on to have wonderful careers, including General Officers.

Below I will besmirch a few.

Yates, George Wilhelmus Mancius began his career with the 4th Michigan Volunteer Infantry, appointed 1st Lt. in Sept./62. Wounded at Fredericksburg. Met Custer while recuperating in Michigan. Custer got him appointed to Pleasanton's staff where he spent the rest of the war, even after Pleasanton was removed from command of cavalry. He spent the rest of the war as Pleasanton's aid in St. Louis. Married twice, a bit of a philanderer and social climber. Was at Washita, then spent several years on reconstruction duty in Kentucky. Was constantly drunk on Yellowstone Expedition, and lost more than $400.00 gambling on the trip. He supposedly redeemed himself on BH expedition. Not much real NA fighting here.   

Weir, Thomas Benton Decent ACW record, although one of his promotions(to captain) was given while he was a prisoner of war. After the war he did not participate in Hancock expedition, he was Libbie's escort in Custer's absence. Some rumors say that this may have lead to "Custer's mad dash across Kansas" He did participate in the Washita. He was an extremely heavy drinker who was recommended for discharge in 1869 due to reduction in size of Army. Minimal NA experience.

Smith, Algernon Emory "Fresh"  applied for disability retirement for injury to arm, until he found he could not live on disability pay, in 1870. Later that year he was recommended to the Benzine review boards for discharge, by Col. Sturgis. Could he have been a malingerer? NA experience?

Keogh, Miles Walter  probably a quality officer, although he habitually known to drink too much. Interestingly he was probably the one who introduced Custer to Garry Owen, the 7th's Battle song. Some say he was a favorite of Custer others dispute. One thing is for sure he had very little experience fighting NA's. Missed Washita, was on Reconstruction duty 1871-73. During Yellowstone and Black Hills expeditions, he was absent doing The Northern Boundary Survey.

Crittenden, John Jordon  Bounced out of West Point in June 1874. Family petitioned Grant for a commission, it was granted. He joined the 20th infantry in Oct./75 10 days later a shotgun shell exploded causing the loss of an eye. Daddy pulled another sting and got John a commission with the 7th in May of 76, a month later he was dead, the only NA experience he would ever get.

Custer, Thomas Ward  yes he of the two MOH, which he received for capturing two battle flags from a barefooted, defeated, demoralized enemy. Was he brave or reckless? I opt for the latter, it may run in the family. A habitual heavy drinker and gambler who reportedly fathered several children in Ohio. Another smart thing was to end up trying to stand up to Wild Bill in 1869 while drunk. Was however involved in Washita, Yellowstone, and Black Hills prior to LBH. He worshiped his brother was a kiss-up and a yes man.

There is much more but it is a start.




    

[Dark Cloud]

I don't think Smith was a malingerer. He was a cripple, and needed help mounting his horse and getting heavy coats on. His left arm was near useless. While I'm sure he was treated accordingly, just being in the saddle was a danger to him, and suspect we ought to be somewhat kinder.

TWC probably drank, but doubtful with Libbie and Armstrong and Boston and Reed about he was the raging drunk presented, since his mother would know and could write. GAC quit drinking but the gambling addiction was a curse and this, too, would be part of his mental world. The thrill of risk.

There wasn't a lot of NA fighting experience to be had by anyone. Further, experience fighting the Sioux did not give much of a leg up fighting, say, Apache, who had no horses and lived in cliff caves and were totally different. Crook by far had the most all over the continent.

[tubman13]

I know you can't put together an officer cadre like you can a fantasy football team, but here are 3 more.

McIntosh, Donald "Tosh" - Half Native American descendent of Red Jacket, of the Six Nations. Moved to DC in 1861 and served as Chief Clerk of Col. Daniel Rucker and spent the rest of the war there. Joined the 7th August 17, 1867. Missed Washita, on sick leave. Fitness report by Col. Sturgis, " Eminently inefficient through extreme indifference to his official duties, giving him the appearance of desiring to render the smallest possible, compatible with absolute security of his commission. If he were an enlisted man he would pass as a malingerer."

French, Thomas Henry "Tucker" - Enlisted in the 10th infantry in January 1864. Fought in the siege of Petersburg and battles to wrap up the war. After the war he remained in the infantry until January 1, 1871, when he joined the 7th. He was a crack shot, probably the best in the regiment. Saved the units bacon on August 11, 1873 (Yellowstone Expedition), when in command of 2 companies. He kept the Sioux from crossing a river and closing on the whole regiment, while vastly out numbered. Participated in Black Hills expedition. Was as important in saving Reno's bacon as Benteen was through his actions on the 26th and 27th of June 1876. His bravery under fire can not be discounted. That being said, he was already a very heavy drinker and after the LBH he became a raging alcoholic.

Calhoun, James "Jimmi" - Joined the 4th Infantry in January 1864, as enlisted. Promoted to 1st Sgt. February 1865. He remained in that position until promoted to 2nd Lt. with the 32nd Infantry in July 1867. Moved with his unit to Ft. Grant, AZ. He spent 2 years there before Army reorganization. He was unassigned and at Ft. Leavenworth, KS when he met Maggie Custer, George's little sister and struck up a romantic relationship. He is then appointed to the 7th as a first Lt. Was on the Yellowstone Expedition, where his gambling became a big issue and his losses even bigger. His brother-in-law Tom had to bring him up short, telling him he could not keep borrowing and to "keep your hands out of my haversack." Was on Black Hills Expedition. He gambled late into the night on June 21, 1876 aboard the Far West with Tom Custer, Reno, Keogh, and Captain Grant Marsh(skipper of the steamer). Don't know how he faired in the game. While he was surely a member of the "Custer Clan", he was a fine officer and competent leader, due to, in large part his time as a 1st Sgt. and officer in the infantry. He obviously knew how to deploy his men. Jimmi was a big man for the cavalry at 6'1", he was also called "Adonis" for his blond hair and good looks.

Regards,
Tom

PS: Do we see a thread of gambling and booze here? I wonder how many of those canteens found by the NA's were partially filled with "Firewater"?

[mac]

Tom
Given their life experiences and chosen occupations the notion of them being drinkers and gamblers does not surprise me. The question is when did they drink? I have to say to be fair that just "cause they do it in their free time does not mean they do it on duty. I would require some evidence for that.
Cheers

Wifi works here!

[tubman13]

Mac, I am glad the Wifi works. Both your point ad DC's are very valid, but one is entitled to wonder. Somewhere I read that the NA's said the acted like drunks. I might have acted like a drunk if I was that badly outnumbered. Did the NA's ever mention liquor in canteen had booze in them, I honestly don't remember.

Regards,
Tom

[crzhrs]

Re: "NA's said they acted like drunks"

Remember than Indians spoke a lot with metaphors. "Acted like drunks" . . . could have meant the soldiers fought so poorly they must have been drunk. And as far as soldiers committing suicide . . . it's possible some did, but again the NA's may have meant the soldiers didn't put up much of a fight, ergo they threw their lives away which to Indians may well have been committing suicide.

[tubman13]

Thanks crzhrs, great recall. Anything about booze in canteens? On the other you are quite right.

Regards,
Tom

[crzhrs]

Can't recall any mention of NA's finding canteens filled with liquor. There is enough evidence from surviving soldiers with Reno/Benteen that there was drinking . . . how much and when is open to debate. Can't say whether there was alcohol along with Custer once the Reno/Custer separation took place. Kinda hard to believe Custer would tolerate it at that point. However, alcohol on campaigns was far more tolerant in those days.

[Dark Cloud]

From what coldly objective source do we learn French saved Reno's or anyone's bacon ever? Wherever you read that, why do you automatically believe it? Why was French devoted to removing cases from carbines when jammed when he, as one of the best shots, could have been better utilized? Also, your summation of the Yellowstone battle and his role in it.....that crucial and dramatic, was it?

What was the feeling about half-breeds in the open minded, unprejudiced officer corps? Tosh was referenced as ugly, at least by one peer's wife, as well, and very tall. Though, Benteen in a letter referenced the slow (by tone 'half assed') manner with which McIntosh did stuff as probably contributing to his death.

Calhoun may have been all that is said, but the "obviously knew how to deploy his men" is seemingly based upon the assertion of his company being the one most organized and who put up the best fight. This is almost entirely based upon his brother in law Moylan mentioning all the cases about. It may be true, or it may be a Greater Truth owed Maggie Custer who, again, lost her husband, three brothers, a nephew and a ton of friends and for God's sake let's give her something. Why not? No one will know. Really, little can be divined about - or if - he or anyone deployed the men at all.

And let's not be surprised that gambling and booze were common not just in the Army but all through the west. As Connell wrote: "The West was not dull, it was stupendously dull, and when not dull it was murderous."

[tubman13]

Sept 26, 2014 18:02:57 GMT -6 Dark Cloud said:

From what coldly objective source do we learn French saved Reno's or anyone's bacon ever? Wherever you read that, why do you automatically believe it? Why was French devoted to removing cases from carbines when jammed when he, as one of the best shots, could have been better utilized? Also, your summation of the Yellowstone battle and his role in it.....that crucial and dramatic, was it? Because bullets were flying around him the whole time, troops respected that. The more rifles he cleared the more rounds going towards the enemy, do you have a problem with that?

What was the feeling about half-breeds in the open minded, unprejudiced officer corps? Tosh was referenced as ugly, at least by one peer's wife, as well, and very tall. Though, Benteen in a letter referenced the slow (by tone 'half assed') manner with which McIntosh did stuff as probably contributing to his death.  What difference does it make? You either do your job or not.

Calhoun may have been all that is said, but the "obviously knew how to deploy his men" is seemingly based upon the assertion of his company being the one most organized and who put up the best fight. Right. This is almost entirely based upon his brother in law Moylan mentioning all the cases about. It may be true, or it may be a Greater Truth owed Maggie Custer who, again, lost her husband, three brothers, a nephew and a ton of friends and for God's sake let's give her something. Why not? No one will know. Really, little can be divined about - or if - he or anyone deployed the men at all. What about the rounds?

And let's not be surprised that gambling and booze were common not just in the Army but all through the west. As Connell wrote: "The West was not dull, it was stupendously dull, and when not dull it was murderous." So?.

I will you give you some more at a later date that will probably really tighten your jaw, but I am slow and ill read, remember.

Regards,
Tom

[Dark Cloud]

1. "Because bullets were flying around him the whole time, troops respected that." Bullets were flying around everyone, Reno included, if you reference the LBH, and others at the Yellowstone.

2. Clearing the carbines wasn't requiring much skill, and bad shots could probably accomplish it. Marksmanship was needed. Clearing weapons for guys who couldn't hit much with them seems odd. They ought to have kept him and good shots with viable carbines.

3. It makes a difference if bigots are unlikely to be honest in their estimations about what the job was and if it were accomplished.

4. "What about the rounds?" What about them?

5. "So?." So why the query of whether there was a thread of gambling and booze? Hardly a thread, more a full page headline with much evidence many indulged in the west, army, and with the 7th. Near everyone drank and gambled.

It's not necessary to respond. You posted stuff I think incorrect and it needed to be contested.

[tubman13]

There is a need to respond, because you are mostly right. It looks like I am saying the officers were all drunk at the battle, I don't think that. Was there some drinking, probably, drunkenness, no. I just don't think the overall senior officer group was a strong one. And Custer may not have had his best with him as he proceeded north after he left Reno hanging out. Maybe Custer liked it that way. Yes men may have given him what he wanted and needed. Regarding French, though I think he did what he needed to do and he knew it. He did not need to be shooting himself, though at times he did, what the command needed was to throw a lot of lead down range, suppression fire. Much like Benteen's mini attacks against the NA's, they had to keep the NA's heads down and keep them from massing in one spot, for an attack. I also seem to recall Company M, under French, was the last to leave the skirmish line in the valley and they left that line in good order, under his direct command.

So I am not slamming all officers.

[AZ Ranger]

I will freely admit that we drank a lot in Viet Nam but not before important duty.

I have a picture of us in a club with 3 cases of beer and 3 of us drinking at the table.

10 cent beer, Black Label, steel can

Regards

AZ Ranger

[tubman13]

Sept 27, 2014 7:36:52 GMT -6 AZ Ranger said:

I will freely admit that we drank a lot in Viet Nam but not before important duty.

I have a picture of us in a club with 3 cases of beer and 3 of us drinking at the table.

10 cent beer, Black Label, steel can

Regards

AZ Ranger

AZ, you are so right. I will bet you had good and bad officers, Academy grads., 90 day wonders, great team members, those who were jerks with personal agenda, and so on. I will continue with some other officers.

Reilly, William VanWyck entered Naval Academy in September 1870, resigned October of 1872. Joined a surveying expedition for 9 months in Nicaragua. Was a superintendent breaking up old warships for the next 2 years. Was commissioned 2nd LT. 10th Cavalry on October 15, 1875, probably due to the urging of his stepfather. Three months later was transferred to the 7th, 6months later he was dead. The battle was his first and last NA experience!

Hodgson, Benjamin Hubert Graduated W.P. and joined the 7th in 1870, immediately assigned to scouting duties in Colorado. Participated in Yellowstone and Black Hills. Probably a very competent officer with NA experience. Good friends with Varnum and Reno. Rumor has it he considered retiring prior to LBH , but was talked out of it by Varnum.

Harrington, Henry Moore   Graduated W.P. 1872 and joined the 7th the same year. Participated in Yellowstone and Black Hills. Some NA experience gained. Some speculation that it was Harrington who committed suicide on horseback while trying to escape warriors.

Porter, James Ezekiel  Graduated W.P. in 1869 joined the 7th October same year. For a little over a year he served on the Kansas plains. From 71-73 reconstruction duty, the majority of the next 2 years involved in boundary duty. At LBH was Keogh's 2nd, body never identified, his bloody jacket with 2 bullet holes found in village.

Sturgis, James Garland "Jack" Son of the real commander of the 7th Cavalry Samuel D. Sturgis. Graduated W.P. 1875. Served on Court Martial Duty before being the last and youngest Regular Officer assigned to the "76" campaign. Was assigned as 3rd in command of Company M, but transferred to E before leaving the Far West. Body never found, undies in village.  

 

[tubman13]

Received this today, thought might be of interest.

All,

Of special interest is Peter Russell’s exemplary research on Lieutenant Charles C. De Rudio whose inveterate hostility towards George Armstrong Custer stemmed in part from the fact that he was not assigned to command 7th Cavalry Company E in 1876. Ironically Custer’s decision probably saved De Rudio’s life at the Little Big Horn. As we reported in the Summer Battlefield Dispatch, Heritage Auctions recently sold a rare inscribed, signed Civil War carte-de-visite of this Italian expatriate.



Please feel free to forward this message or otherwise share this information with all interested persons and parties.



Lee & Michele Noyes, Editors

CBHMA Battlefield Dispatch



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www.custerbattlefield.org



Lieut. De Rudio possesses neither the experience nor the ability . . . [to] command a cavalry company liable to be called upon at any moment to engage against hostile Indians. He is a confirmed grumbler, and according to his own confession is a natural conspirator. He is, all things considered, the inferior of every first lieutenant in this Regt. as an efficient and subordinate officer. Lieut. Colonel George A. Custer