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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 13:53:35 GMT -6
Weir Point ( June 2012)  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 13:57:23 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 14:05:36 GMT -6
Might help some get an idea of the terrain. Pretty sure loads of combatants could easily move unseen behind the ridges (dust? Not much if you're on foot.)
c.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Mar 16, 2013 16:24:16 GMT -6
The top one of Weir Pt. has the resolution to show really crappy ground to take anyone, but especially cavalry, while under fire. It looks far worse from the other direction from which the 7th came, but today with the abundant growth the ground can be very deceiving, hiding the innumerable dangers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 16:37:31 GMT -6
"... but today with the abundant growth."
You lost me there DC. Please explain.
Hoping to make another trip to the field this June and take a pic or two from and towards Weir Point.
Best,
c.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Mar 16, 2013 20:11:17 GMT -6
What was rare in the top picture was the browned out grass. When it is all green, or more so, as it sometimes can be, you cannot tell ground features as easily at all. In 1876, and for years after, the grass was sparse and there was a lot of bare ground around plant growth. There are pix that show what look like sand banks from Reno field to LSH. Fred - or someone - had a GREAT photo illustrating all that which nobody can find now.
I don't mean it's being treated like a lawn, but there aren't herds of bison and grazing animals keeping down to nubs as it was in 1876.
It's why I don't think an Army guy would remotely consider taking his men into that high, dry, defenseless plateau surrounded by god knows what. There could have been a village down the way the same size as the one before them now.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 17, 2013 9:52:20 GMT -6
DC: There is not a thing in the world wrong with that terrain. Under the conditions of 1876 it would take a thousand men to take it from an enemy and seven to eight hundred to defend it. That is the problem.
If you look at the first photo Chris posted, you will see clearly depicted five different avenues of approach to Battle Ridge. The first nearest the camera, and the last nearest Weir Point are wide and do not provide cover and concealment. Their width does offer certain advantages of speed though. The center three are deep, provide good cover and concealment on the approach, and come out at points where if the hostiles reach the ridge top they break the defense in two. All would need to be plugged and you can't do it with 210.. I think if memory serves there are two more that are hidden from the camera.
The bottom line is that you rarely get to pick the terrain you attack. The enemy picks that for you. Sometimes fate picks it for you. You don't always get to pick the terrain you defend either. If it is a deliberate defense you do, but being forced into a hasty defense you take the best available.
So that you don't misread this, given a choice I would not want to operate there, and I certainly would not want to operate there with only 210 effectives.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Mar 18, 2013 4:29:20 GMT -6
Great shots Chris;
The first photo shows how the ravines move from left to right, so if you move from Weir Point to the place the shot was taken, you would be moving against the grain of the land.
The second photo of the west side of LSH, shows the slope and the ridge line the remains of Custer’s men had to defend, it certainly looks a large area to hold on to and you also have the blind side of that ridge to defend, trying to make a 360 degree defence with only one Company (F Company had 38 men tops) of men plus another twelve or so with the HQ is an impossible task.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2013 15:12:39 GMT -6
Thanks Ian, These are what I call "PostCard" shots, with lousy contrast etc... you take what the light can give. Here's an enlargement of the road notch through Weir Point from the top image. Might give you an idea of perspective. The arrow points to an RV or tour bus. Was that 3 miles from Custer Hill?  Best, c. |
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Post by alfakilo on Apr 4, 2013 15:51:21 GMT -6
Might give you an idea of perspective. The arrow points to an RV or tour bus. Was that 3 miles from Custer Hill? In that blowup, the top of a red car can be seen below Weir Point...I think it may be on the park road along Calhoun Ridge. Here is a pic that I think shows the relationship of the sight line from the cemetery to Weir Point (bottom line) as compared to the cemetery to the Crow's Nest (top line). The smaller yellow circle is Weir Point. Attachments:
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