Red Shirt, Oglala

[tubman13]

Red Shirt, Fred's previous book states on page 173 "he was listed in the Crazy Horse surrender ledger in 1877, making it fairly likely that he was present at the Little Bighorn." Along with some other information.

Regards,
Tom

[redshirt82]

Hello Fred disregard anything others are telling you about Red Shirt. Who is this Rosebud character jumping all over the work you are putting together. My wife has come under fire recently about a story she wrote about Red Shirt, but the story was approved by my dad and I so she went ahead and had it published. I am glad to see people are interested in him. I know Red Shirt was there when The Lakota defeated General Crook a week or two before LBH. The way he wore his hair was only permitted to a certain warrior society, so their is a fact for your research.

[redshirt82]

Red Shirt's legacy is like so many others before him full of speculation. Fred what you are doing is right on and you are right I want to hear one indian say who was at LBH. 

Attachments:

[fred]

Red Shirt,

Pay no attention to that idiot Rosebud. He is a local rancher... you must know the type quite well: the closer they live to the battlefield, the more they know about the Little Big Horn and the Indians who fought there. People like Rosebud aren't good enough to carry your dirty laundry. He has an opinion on everything and he is wrong on almost every one of those opinions. To make it worse, he is dumb... not stupid... just dumb.

I would love to see a copy of your wife's work. Can you e-mail it to me? I will give you my e-mail address in a Private Message. If you and your wife give me permission, I would like to share the article with a friend of mine. This friend works in a museum and is considered by many as being one of the country's foremost experts on the Lakota Sioux. He loves them and has written extensively on them. I transcribed the census data for him from the original 1900 census sheets of the Cheyenne River, Pine Ridge, and Standing Rock agencies. Those sheets probably contain the data for your entire family, immediate and extended, and I can share that with you if you want.

Again, Red Shirt, pay no attention to the idiots; people like that aren't worth your time.

By the way, that picture is magnificent!!! What a handsome man Red Shirt was!

Very best wishes,
Fred.

[august]

Hey guys,

I hope I'm not intruding on this thread but I'm curious about something I recently found.

I, too, am very interested in Red Shirt and have been reading as much about him and the family as i can. The boards have been incredible and the presence of family members here is so wonderful. Hello!

I was reading John Burke's book "Buffalo Bill From Prairie to Palace: An Authentic History of the Wild West" and noticed that Red Shirt is, in the index, also referenced as "Ogle Sa." I know Red Shirt was in England in 1887 when Cody's Wild West did its first tour.

Anyway, recently I stumbled upon autographs of Burke, Nate Salsbury and, I believe, Red Shirt (as "Oglee Sa") from what looks like an autograph book from 1887 (so likely signed in England?). I found an interesting photo of the 3 of them in England (with Cody) in 1887 at:

cdm15330.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/78963/rec/1 

which has helped me to try and verify the autographs.

Now i'm curious what the experts think. Could this indeed be Red Shirt's autograph?

I've posted them here:

Burke/Salsbury: 



Red Shirt?: 



Based on Salsbury's date, the location of Red Shirt's signature between the two and even the Denver library photo mentioned above, the context does seems correct. I don't know if there are any other Red Shirt signings i could compare to.

I'm very curious on any feedback and will continue to enjoy learning about a man who seems to have lived an incredible life spanning many ages and times.

August

[fred]

Apr 2, 2014 5:16:15 GMT -6 august said:

I hope I'm not intruding on this thread but I'm curious about something I recently found.

I, too, am very interested in Red Shirt and have been reading as much about him and the family as i can. The boards have been incredible and the presence of family members here is so wonderful. Hello!

August,

Well I must say it is a delight to have you here and participating in what is proving to be an enormously interesting subject.

I, personally, would be no help in determining if that signature is actually Red Shirt's. At first blush, I would say it appears authentic, simply because it appears fairly crude, especially when you compare it to handwriting seemingly learned at an early age. To me it is indicative of an old man's handwriting or the handwriting of someone new to the craft. Based on that, I would say it is authentic, but my opinion would never stand up in any sort of tribunal.

Anyway, I am hoping you are able to participate in this and teach me whatever you can about this man. His g-g-grandson (?), I believe it is, is proving to be an extremely nice person and an absolutely invaluable source of information. To me, Red Shirt has always seemed to be one of the great American Indians and I am fascinated to know more.

Welcome again.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[august]

Thanks Fred! I'm always happy to be part of good strong discussions! Nothing new from me right now but i'm happy to be a part of things!

[redshirt82]

Red Shirt, who joined the Wild West Show's tour of England in 1887, would become the most famous of the Show Indians, second only to Sitting Bull. He would become the most often quoted Show Indian in the press. Red Shirt also seemed to adopt the showman persona that allowed Cody to become so successful. Like other Show Indians, Red Shirt sat for souvenir photographs in London. Like Sitting Bull and backstage craft workers, Red Shirt embraced a professional persona that served him well in show business.

Now in truth Red Shirt was friends with Sitting Bull long before his stint in the Wild West Show. Red Shirt was both a war chief and a peace chief, I know he earned his honors in a battle with the Crow when it was noted he staked himself out and refused to move from his position. Red Shirt was known to our enemies as a man to be both feared and respected.

[fred]

Apr 8, 2014 10:40:08 GMT -6 redshirt82 said:

Red Shirt was known to our enemies as a man to be both feared and respected.

... and you should be telling us more. That way we can learn too.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[Yan Taylor]

As I have mentioned before, Buffalo Bill came to the north of England to put a show on in Manchester, check these out;

link

link

I think this is a great shot;

Bus Conductor; were to Chief
Chief: a two shilling ticket out of here it's freezing



Ian.

[august]

The photos from Salford are really interesting. I can't imagine what that must have been like for those folks in England - mind blowing I'm sure! The photo of the "Indian Village on Salford Quays" I hadn't seen before.

How did the group get home from there alone? Is that true?

I found the following news article from the Australian paper "The Brisbane Courier" from June 23, 1887 which I'm curious what people think about. It's an interview with Red Shirt but seems to wander a bit into fantasy. Or does it? What do folks think?

trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3472620/91131?

August