Analyze the film!!!

[lizs]

Ya know... I did have a film analyzation (sp? so I can say it even if I can't spell it!) class in college. At the U of I and all... and even with a French teacher who smoked (and I think he would have worn a beret!)... and a bunch of grad students in their major!!! EEEEEK!!! I was an undergrad... and just skeert to even talk!

However... once we started analyzing and writing papers, I kicked ass... I mean @$$. (I think it was my farout theory on some clown movie.) And walked away twirling my gun with an "A." YES, an "A!"

OK, so I'm sitting here watching "Dances With Wolves." Obviously when Dunbar rides across the Civil War field with his arms up, it is like he is dying and going to be resurrected (by going West, HELLO!). Huge Biblical relationship.

However... Knowing what we do about the intentions of the Ghost Dance, might it also be a nod to it? Dunbar rides through the field of bullets in his WHITE SHIRT, bullets all missing him? hmmm, am I the only one wondering about this??? (ummm.. yeah... I suppose... perhaps...)

Discuss...

AND What of the weirdo British dude who commits suicide right away? Does that tie into any LBH military types?

[stevewilk]

While an entertaining film (I did see it three times at the theater; hey it is a cavalry/Indian film after all) I find the whole premise of an army officer deserting the military to live with the Indians ridiculous. True, mountain men trappers would live with the tribes, adopt some of their dress and customs and often take Indian wives. Scouts like Bouyer or Dorman would live with a foot in both worlds; but I've never heard of an army officer eschewing the comforts of civilization (to the extent they existed in the 1860s) to become a white Indian. Not even Capt. John Bourke, Crook's aide, who studied some of the tribes and wrote of their cultures.

The film of course paints the world of the wasichu as insane; hence the major blowing his brains out after peeing his pants. The only decent white people in the film are of course, Costner and Mary McDonald, who accept the Lakota way of life. The rest are scoundrels and lunatics. No doubt the world of the white man was insane in the eyes of the Lakota; I often find it insane myself-being stuck in traffic certainly gets me thinking along those lines.

As for white women being taken by Indians and wanting to stay with them, the facts portray a scenario quite opposite from the film. Virtually no white females who were taken captive by Indians on the western frontier wanted to stay; Cynthia Ann Parker was a rare exeption, not the rule. Most were thrilled to be liberated and returned to civilization. Many were shunned by society after having been "tainted" by the savages. Others were driven to insanity after their brutal treatment, which the film does not portray.

[Dark Cloud]

Wolves is a wonderful story, but it isn't real life, no. Any captive woman who looked Ms. McDonald is as likely as barfly widows in Gloucester resemble Diane Lane in The Perfect Storm, and I'd know. There was an incident in the CW that the Dunbar scene between the lines is based upon, I've read. Others here surely know.

I wonder how many incidents are referenced to achieve these facts, though. Were all or even most captives even known about? There are apparently tone differences in the tribes and Crazy Horse was supposedly lighter skinned and suspected of having white blood (which may have been a convenient racial rationalization for the Army butts he had nailed to his, well, lodge..). But agree, doubt many people 'taken' by violence do well in the main. The children might do better. It's what we found in shipping Indians' kids back East.

But was it always or even mostly by force? From the earliest days, the lives of the Indians were a powerful attraction - all those literary templates again - with some settlers moving in with the tribes. It may have been what happened, more or less, with some of the missing colonial towns. Ben Franklin and others worried about young men running off to join the tribes. Hard to tell how serious it was, but people did worry about it.

In some ways, the comforts of civilization as known on the frontier were probably inferior to the robes and fires.

And, recall Bison, the West Point student who returned or joined a tribe later on and was once supposed to be Sitting Bull, but his classmates ran into him later. It's in SOTMS.

[biggordie]

Dunbar's ride might also be a nod in the direction of the warrior "bravery run" - it is a virtually identical scene - and at least establishes that he was, underneath it all, a kindred spirit. We know nothing of his back story, especially during the War - even to the extent of whether he was regular Army or USVs .

The story is romantic in several ways, i.e. a romance, but not representative of anything more than that, historically. I'd love to get my hands on some of the Indian clothing, and the period replica weapons. Make great display items.

If it's in SOTMS, it must be true.

Gordie

[clw]

Frank Huston was a confederate soldier who lived many years with the Sioux after his family was murdered in the CW and fought with them against the Union for revenge. Graham gives us indications (pg 79) that he may have lived a life similar to Dunbar's.

[BrokenSword]

Most boys my age were just playin' Injun. I was LIVIN' Injun! - Jack Crabb aka Little Big Man

[El Crab]

Dunbar's story wasn't exactly normal for the frontier, an officer sent to a post that is unknowingly deserted. And its just that, a story. But as others have pointed out, some white people were known to immerse themselves into an Indian tribe on the Plains.

Interesting theory about Dunbar's attempt at Suicide By Confederate. The white shirt being symbolic of a ghost shirt, though I'd be surprised if that was intended. Since the Ghost Dance was nearly 40 years away, but you never know.

I used to feel sorry for people who noticed things like that in a movie, as I always figured they weren't enjoying the movie, as much as they were dissecting it. But once I got a little older, and my love of movies increased, I started noticing things without trying.

The first thing I ever noticed was in Ronin.

[Melani]

The two doctors who took off for coffee before amputating Dunbar's leg were reenactors--friends of friends of mine--who had gotten spiffy new uniforms for their time on the big screen. The new uniforms were totally covered with stage blood--my friends said they were "ruined," but I would think that would just add to the authenticity.

[lizs]

I used to feel sorry for people who noticed things like that in a movie, as I always figured they weren't enjoying the movie, as much as they were dissecting it. But once I got a little older, and my love of movies increased, I started noticing things without trying.

I had that class, but more recently symbolism (hidden meaning, etc) jumps out at me, too. Like the white shirt and tons of bullets missing it, like divine intervention. But of course, ghost dance shirts didn't protect the NAs. While this one did... can we conclude the whites are blessed?? ahhh, just continuing theories.

You should see me take photos. I've taken so many and know enough about it that I can't take "just" a snapshot unless I really, really try to *not* set up the background, etc. Yes, the art of a simple photo has been ruined for me. Then again, I hope I have a better photo that captures what I want, without unneeded distractions.