The German-Lakota Connection

[kiktayokangi]

hello and thanks for the welcome. i found this forum last night and barely slept cuz i was up reading this forum all night!

I have been inspired to go back and look into getting these drawings back. I do not know the ''rules'' of repatriation but it seems to me with our proof of direct bloodline they belong to us. I gave up a couple years ago but am going to start it up again. I am going back to the rez next month and will get Grandpa's family tree.

thank you

[shan]

kiktayokangi,

You mention'd that you were related to an Indian by the name of Sinte, and that you would like any information on him and his ledger drawings. When I read your post the name rang a bell, and after puzzeling over it for awhile I have now rembered where I read about him previously.

There is a little bit about him, {not much, } in a book called, "Plains Indian Drawings 1865--1935 by Janet Berlo. Its a big book full of great Ledger Art and has three drawings by Sinte in it, but no photos of him unfortunately.

Hope that is of some help, if you ever come across a photo of him and can post it, I would be very interested to see it.

Shan

[kiktayokangi]

Shan
thank you so much! i will find that book. it may be the one where i got the photos of his drawings from that someone had, but i hope they are different drawings. We believe he did 12 drawings for Rudolf Cronau. I have photos of, I think, six of them.

we have the three photos of him that were taken by Rhinehart in 1891 (?) well we have xerox copies of them from the Smithsonian cuz we could not pay 50 DOLLARS APEICE for them. Could you imagine paying 50 dollars for a photo of a family member?Especially when you live in the ''poorest place in america" ?? Anyway, Sinte lived and rode with Crazy Horse, he is in the surrender ledger under Tail (Sinte) then he was in the Buff Bill shows, then came back to the rez and was alloted some land next to a family member named Pahin (porcupine) hence how the district was called ''Porcupine Tail" --they later dropped the ''Tail" and it is now Porcupine which has much history attached to the land. It is 7 miles from Wounded Knee.

I can email you the photos of Sinte so you can post them if you'd like. I do not have them on a server so i cannot post them

thanks!! i am going to find that book!!

[biggordie]

kiktayokangi:

There are some copies available on Abebooks; but they start at $125.00. I'm guessing that this book is not so easy to find at an inexpensive price. Maybe you should try your local library [inter-library loan if necessary] before laying out any such sum.

Gordie

Gordie

[kiktayokangi]

ugh. yes i am seeing how expensive it is. going to try the library tomorrow.
i will post Sinte fotos so you can see them guess i will put them up under ''pix'' or something.

[shan]

kiktayokangi

thanks for putting those photos up, he's certainly a fine looking man.

The two drawings on the page you posted are also reproduced in the book along with 5 others.

Two are of animals, in one he dipicts bear, deer, and buffalo, and in the other, some of these are being a hunted by a mounted Indian.

The other three drawings are 1. a drawing of Pine Ridge Agency. This is a birds eye view
2. This one is called, ' An Indian butchering celebration,' and shows a scene of people chasing cattle during the beef issue, again a birds eye view.

3, This is entitled, " A Settlement, and also shows a birds eye view of houses, wagons and Tepees.

Yes the book is expensive, it was when I bought it some 12 years ago. I think this may be because they didn't print all that many copies, so there aren't that many out there.

Shan

[kiktayokangi]

Shan
i just replied but wasn't logged in, so i hope this doesnt show up twice!

I meant to post those to you and not big gordy but i got mixed up! well, whoever is interested can view them now.

I cannot thank you enough for this information. The one you mention of Pine Ridge is a must have! I have been searching for years and have only come up lists and those two pix I have. The lists always gave how many drawings and no links or info. Quite frustrating. The German museum had some of the actual drawings and some info in a catalog which is where i got those photos, but everything was in German!

I am going to try libraries tomorrow and hopefully i can check out the book and just take pix of them with my camera. I checked with Prairie Edge in Rapid City and they have a used copy for 125.00 too. She said she thinks there are some soft cover editions out there that aren't so expensive so i am going to keep looking.

WOPILA!! (thank you in Lakota) You made my day!!

[rhenisch]

The Karl May Museum in Radebeul, a suburb of Dresden, Germany, prominently displays several dioramas of the Battle of Wounded Knee. There were many Indian reenactment groups active in communist East Germany, encouraged by the government as a way of strengthening group socialization. Karl May's books remained popular, and East German children played not with lead soldiers but with lead Indians. By the way, those are awfully Saxon-like Indians. It appears that the panoramas of the battle and the battlefield are meant to represent German experience, with Napoleon, first, and occupation after WWII, second, and fear of invasion from the West, third. Many signs abound throughout East Germany of the desire of either the (former) East German people or their (former) government for peace and the desire to live a simple life together without political forces tearing them one way or another. In the case of the Karl May Museum, the Americans are clearly set out as being the enemy of the family-loving people of Wounded Knee. My guess is it's a surviving piece of government propaganda. Outside, one can enjoy, if that's the right word, concrete totem poles. The whole museum is distasteful. I was there 3 weeks ago.

Harold

[conz]

"Saxon-looking Indians?" My how history can come around...

Our Native Americans are genetically and appearance-wise closer to the Hun people than the Germans...the Huns who tore the Germans up some 1,600 years ago.

And then we called the Germans "Huns" during WWI, and now we have a museum where the Germans are associating themselves with a Hunnic people!

Irony at SO many levels...sometimes we become our enemies...

Clair

[Dark Cloud]

No irony whatsoever. People illustrated books for an audience with no first hand experience of the subject - and sometimes artists with no first hand esperience - with what inspiration they had: the people around them. It isn't ironic that all religious paintings of Europe till recently looked like the Gospels took place in Italy and were peopled by tall, not rarely blond Europeans. If you want people to respond to a propaganda painting, the people in it should look like the people you're trying to influence, or they'll respond as to science fiction.

We called the Germans "Huns" because the Kaiser, when sending his troops to fight the Boxers, publicly and in print instructed them to conduct themselves as the Huns had in Europe, and they revelled in it. It was a German nickname for German soldiers from the All-Highest himself, and stuck like Yankee for us. Given Louvain and Coucy, as well as the innumerable graveyards throughout Belgium and France of civilians "shot by the Germans", they took it to heart.