The German-Lakota Connection

[cefil]

I ran across this today, and found it fascinating...especially since several of the real aficionados on these Indian threads seem to have Germanic monikers:

Each year an untold number of German visitors, mostly young, make their way to Pine Ridge, Kyle, Wounded Knee other reservation communities. They camp in people’s yards, stay in homes and delve deeply into Native American culture.

But what brought the Germans here in the first place? Often, the answer is Karl May, the adventure writer who penned children’s books a century ago.

Children in Germany grew up reading May’s tales of Winnetou, Old Shatterhand and other noble characters of the American West. Although May died in 1912, his books have sold more than 200 million copies worldwide. His books have been made into movies, and there are even Karl May-inspired theme parks in Germany.

The full story is here: www.blackhillstravelblog.com/the-german-lakota-connection/

Any truth to the Karl May theory?

cefil

[ladonna]

Karl May never came to America or meet any native people.
The books he wrote were total false, but Germans come in great
numbers to the reservation each year.

[Dietmar]

I believe Karl May´s influence on today´s image of American Indians is overrated. Surely he was important for earlier generations. But he wasn´t even the first who interested Germans for the American West. Just think of Prince Maximilian zu Wied and Duke Paul of Württemberg or Swiss painter Karl Bodmer, who travelled America in the early 19th century. Interestingly they were the ones who inspired Karl May.
Then Buffalo Bill´s tours in Europe fascinated many Germans. Many Westerner´s societies were founded at that time.

I never read one book of Karl May. I must admit that for my generation German Western movies who were inspired by Karl May were more important. They gave a very positive image of Indian Nations, though they were full of clichés either.

Today you have so many books, children´s books, novels, movies, TV documentations, magazines, etc. about Indian culture and history you can´t say Germans were only or mainly taught by Karl May about it.

Having said that, I don´t state that having read books or watch TV gets you to know these people. I still believe I have no clue. And I read a lot.

Best regards

Dietmar

[conz]

Perhaps the German fascination comes about due to the "tribal" associations the Germans maintained into Medieval times more than the rest of European civilization...they were the largest group to avoid Roman "civilizing" influences.

So maybe studying the American tribes hearkens back to their memories of times when the German tribes ruled the known world...

On this side of the pond, I have always held fascination for the German tribes much of my genetic makeup comes from. I fancy myself a descendant of the "Alemanni" tribe for my "tribal roots."

Clair

[Dietmar]

Mmmh, nice theory... but I don´t believe it has anything to do with it.

Sorry, take it easy

[andym]

We had several exchange students some years ago from France, Spain, and Germany,when our children were in high school and the first thing these European students would ask would be if they could see and meet an American Indian.

[Dark Cloud]

People get interested in topics by ways that later embarrass them. Nobody - no famous musician, anyway - admited for years they learned guitar from The Kingston Trio's records; they had, it seems, discovered an old Robert Johnson album at a friends house and.......

Nobody in the US discovered the fascinating cultures of the American Indians through Cooper or later novelists like Zane Grey or whoever, either. No, nobody read those books, huge sales figures to the contrary. They became involved because they met, or a distant relative met, an old medicine man; or they happened to travel throught the west and their hearts bled for the poverty, so socially conscious were they.

I suspect that is the same thing in Germany. May sold gabillions of volumes, and because they were fiction and often inaccurate it embarrasses Germans today, as we often are about Cooper and black/white ethical presentations in the movies. But, it's the magic of fiction that caught the eye and heart, and it's nothing to be ashamed of at all.

[fred]

May 9, 2008 8:38:32 GMT -6 Dark Cloud said:

People get interested in topics by ways that later embarrass them. Nobody - no famous musician, anyway - admited for years they learned guitar from The Kingston Trio's records; they had, it seems, discovered an old Robert Johnson album at a friends house

Absolutely, positively!!!

May 9, 2008 8:38:32 GMT -6 Dark Cloud said:

May sold gabillions of volumes, and because they were fiction and often inaccurate it embarrasses Germans today, as we often are about Cooper and black/white ethical presentations in the movies. But, it's the magic of fiction that caught the eye and heart, and it's nothing to be ashamed of at all.

You couldn't be more correct, especially right after WWII and well into the 60's. German I knew were enamored with Karl May's writings, and their fascination with American Indians and the vastness of our West is remarkable. I have never gone out West without bumping into German tourists; our West and the seashore. Germans seem to have this inordinate fascination with the beaches. Or am I stereotyping?

Best wishes,
Fred.

[Dietmar]

Correct Fred,

I was at the sea last weekend.

What I meant to say about May is, today he has not the importance he had decades ago. I guess that today more Germans have formed an initial image of American Indians in their mind from a movie like "Dances with Wolves" (which is not accurate either) than from May´s writings. Imagine American Indians are a topic even in primary school, before no kid has ever read a full book of May.
But of course he helped to install a tradition of interest for Indians.

Regards

Dietmar

[Melani]

I was fascinated to see, among the photos sent in by satisfied users of Panther Primitives tents, a couple of mountain men in a tepee with all the necessary gear--in Germany.

[Diane Merkel]

Dietmar, how are German children introduced to Indians? I'm wondering about the context. Do they study North and South American history in the primary grades?

(Dietmar writes history textbooks.)

[Dietmar]

Diane,

American Indians are not specifically included in curricula in primary school, but are a classic theme like medieval knights, for example. It depends on every single teacher how good, accurate and sensitive it is taught to the students. Mostly it is confined to show the variety of Indian nations and differences between image and reality.
Actually in higher classes there are indeed chapters in some schoolbooks about Indian history and culture and the American West in general.
I wrote two different chapters for two German books about it. The goal of these was not only to learn about American History, but about cultural conflicts in general.
Indios of South America are more or less included in chapters about discovery and conquest of the world by Europeans (Columbus, Cortes, etc.).
Apart from that the most important times in German history classes are the Stone-Age, Ancient Egypt, the Roman Empire, Middle-Age, Revolution in France and of course German History in general.

Best

D.

[Diane Merkel]

Thanks, Dietmar. I don't remember getting much world history at all except Ancient History in the 9th grade. Even with the curriculum you cited -- which is better than I had -- there still are a lot of holes to be filled by independent reading.

Diane

P.S. At the risk of sounding like a starry-eyed idealist, perhaps if children learned more about the history and culture of other countries, this little round orb would be a bit more peaceful.

[kiktayokangi]

many lakota artifacts are in Germany. Here is MY story....my grandpa is full blood Oglala headman on Pine Ridge...his grandpa was Sinte from Crazy Horse tiospaye...after CH was killed, Sinte ended up in Buffalo Bills Wild West Show, and met Rudolf Cronau the famous German artist/journalist. Sinte did many ledger drawings for Cronau, but our family had never seen any.
Well, in 2000 Grandpa was speaking at the United Nations conference in Germany, and was invited to a museum to see some Lakota things there. While he was speaking with museum people, his wife was wandering around and lo and behold SCREAMED when she saw behind glass 6 of Sinte's drawings! Grandpa could not get them back. I searched for years for the rest of them, and several are in the Museum of Natural History in NYC but they will not give them to us either, nor are we able to see them. Sinte was photographed by R.A. Anderson as well, there are 3 photos of him but I could only afford xerox copies from the Smithsonian for my Grandpa.
Such injustice still goes on in this country.

[Diane Merkel]

First of all, welcome!

I thought current law required the return of artifacts to the descendants or appropriate tribe, or does that only apply to personal belongings rather than artwork? I know that Sitting Bull's descendant Ernie LaPointe recently received a few of SB's belongings from the Smithsonian.