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Post by Tricia on Apr 6, 2006 12:38:52 GMT -6
He JUMPED in a stream, or fell in it, which is pretty strange, isn't it ? Melancholia doesn't mean anything. It's like if the conclusion was "Sadness". Something has killed Weir, could be himself of someone else. But West, you're right, if I had witnessed an ugly betrayal as Weir did, I would probably commit suicide I think Diane has debated the "jumping into the stream" point with you before on another thread. There was no attempted suicide, to paraphrase her--I think--as others were swimming in said stream, and Weir, whether drunk or not, jumped in to join them. When you take things out of context, it looks all moody and dramatic, when there is nothing to it when looking at an action in its full perspective. Weir was an alcoholic and died alone in a New York hotel room. And as clinical depression can last for years, so we'll never know if LBH was the cause of his mental state at his death. Also, alcoholism itself can create its own depressive state--as said addict realises alcohol is not the solution to their perceived problem. There's no myth here. End of discussion. I think it would have been helpful for all involved had Weir lived, but fate dealt a different card. Speculation can be fun as long as we regard it as nothing more than that. Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 6, 2006 12:46:08 GMT -6
West:
How on earth could you say I insulted Weir? You are saying it's OK for CSS to state Weir probably committed suicide because Custer had been betrayed. Then say I insulted him for committing suicide for another reason. Suicide is suicide regardless of the reason. It's the coward's way out.
I have found little testimony from anyone regarding Weir's action once on Reno Hill. Tell me what you know about Weir once he got back to Reno Hill.
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Post by Tricia on Apr 6, 2006 12:55:13 GMT -6
West: How on earth could you say I insulted Weir? You are saying it's OK for CSS to state Weir probably committed suicide because Custer had been betrayed. Then say I insulted him for committing suicide for another reason. Suicide is suicide regardless of the reason. It's the coward's way out. I have found little testimony from anyone regarding Weir's action once on Reno Hill. Tell me what you know about Weir once he got back to Reno Hill. Crzhrs-- IF Weir committed suicide--which I am not convinced of--he is a bigger coward than Reno ever could hope to be. Suicide, for whatever reason, is simply abhorrent and the most selfish act anyone can perpetrate ... and often ruinious to the people left behind. I can sympathise with Weir's mental state, but I cannot condone or heroize any man who willingly takes his own life. But getting back to your point, it would be nice to see if there are any references to Weir's behaviour at Reno Hill. Surely there are some biographical articles running around about the fellow. Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 6, 2006 13:00:04 GMT -6
I don't believe Weir committed suicide. The doctor's diagnosis of melancholia is clinically correct. The combination of alcohol, depression, remorse, and all that is involved with depression plus the tragedy at the LBH, and witnessing the dead, probably tooks its toll on Weir.
What he had to tell Libbie may have been important but he took it with him to his grave.
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Post by Tricia on Apr 6, 2006 13:02:23 GMT -6
What he had to tell Libbie--that stuff he never told her--makes a possible suicide even more unpalatable. But I don't believe he killed himself or was murdered or anything remotely dramatic.
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Post by custerstillstands on Apr 6, 2006 13:25:18 GMT -6
What he had to tell Libbie--that stuff he never told her--makes a possible suicide even more unpalatable. But I don't believe he killed himself or was murdered or anything remotely dramatic. Yes, but what you think is not an evidence anyway. Weir was dispressed and he was always reminding LBH according to his doctor who saw him drinking and drinking again. A lot of alchool addicts put eventually a gun their mouth, but it's not really great to put "suicide" in the Army and Navy Journal. It could almost raise question about what Weir knew (and if the rumors were right - they were)
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Post by Tricia on Apr 6, 2006 13:32:47 GMT -6
And you have no evidence. We are all just speculating at this point until someone finds the doctor's report that mentions a bullet in the poor man's brain. You're taking your conspiracy thinking just a mite too far. Weir was an alcoholic and if the disease reaches its final stage, death is the result. Period.
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 6, 2006 13:44:02 GMT -6
Weir didn't put a gun to his mouth . . . there was no evidence of any suicide.
I based my opinion on that. You use your opinion often, why can't I? Because it doesn't agree with yours?
If you have evidence of a suicide by Weir then present it.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 6, 2006 14:10:12 GMT -6
CSS, your dear friend West brought this up a long time ago. If you will go to Page 18 of this board, you will see a thread he started called "Weir's Death" which explains everything in detail.
If you love conspiracy theories so much, please find a JFK forum since you apparently believe that nonsense, too.
Do you like the quote I added beneath my signature? I put that there just for you and West.
Diane
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Post by Tricia on Apr 6, 2006 14:23:05 GMT -6
Diane--
Brilliant post ... but I'm sure they'll manage to find a way to bash Mr. Covey. Which habit is that? Oh, I forgot: he's only applicable with Highly Effective People.
Regards, LMC
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 6, 2006 15:48:28 GMT -6
I don't understand what is wrong with someone forming an opinion after during years of reading and research. The whole idea of reading is to form opinions and to be able to THINK FOR YOURSELF.
If someone is that brain dead that they can't form an opinion, God help them . . . (or whoever/whatever you believe in)
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 6, 2006 17:04:49 GMT -6
From SOMS:
According to Lt. Garlington: right after the LBH Weir and others were invited to a supper and stayed a long time. When they left they got into a wagon but Weir refused go because he didn't like one of the officers. Weir climbed out of the wagon and said he would walk. Weir never came back so others went to look for him and found him in a stream. He had jumped in or fallen in and was swimming around. Weir refused help saying he would drown first. He later relented and was helped out. Next morning on the march to Ft. Lincoln Weir was "a sorry spectacle." His clothes were wet and wrinkled and he wore a strang narrow-brimed hat which looked like a small boy's hat. Garlington stated even Weir's horse looked humilated by the appearance of his rider.
Less than six months after the battle Weir died. He was 38. His physician told Libbie Custer that when Weir arrived in New York he was depressed and nervous. He spent most of his time in one room, avoiding everybody. Toward the end he became so nervous that he was unable to swallow. Lt. Garlington said he died of pneumonia. Others ascribed his death to melancholia and congestion of the brain.
It appears there was no sign of a suicide.
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Post by Jim on Apr 6, 2006 17:44:53 GMT -6
crzhrs(Actually SOMS)--
In my opinion, that is undoubtedly, the work of alcoholic beverages. Probably the MANY reasons for the HIGH alcoholic rate in the Army in he 1870's was Boredom, Personal Problems, Rivalry and Environment. Melancholia and Congestion of the Brain = Depression & Alcoholism!
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Post by custerstillstands on Apr 7, 2006 0:40:39 GMT -6
Do you like the quote I added beneath my signature? I put that there just for you and West. Diane Great. I don't any post by you in the "betrayal" thread or any argument by you against my case in any thread here. If you have any evidence against the "betrayal" case, please give it. It's not convincing to bring this kind of condescending remark about "seeking" all the day like professor McLean does to hide his/her lack of evidence. Please bring me facts against the "betrayal" theory and maybe the debate could start.
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Post by custerstillstands on Apr 7, 2006 0:45:09 GMT -6
From SOMS: According to Lt. Garlington: right after the LBH Weir and others were invited to a supper and stayed a long time. When they left they got into a wagon but Weir refused go because he didn't like one of the officers. Weir climbed out of the wagon and said he would walk. Weir never came back so others went to look for him and found him in a stream. He had jumped in or fallen in and was swimming around. Weir refused help saying he would drown first. He later relented and was helped out. Next morning on the march to Ft. Lincoln Weir was "a sorry spectacle." His clothes were wet and wrinkled and he wore a strang narrow-brimed hat which looked like a small boy's hat. Garlington stated even Weir's horse looked humilated by the appearance of his rider. Less than six months after the battle Weir died. He was 38. His physician told Libbie Custer that when Weir arrived in New York he was depressed and nervous. He spent most of his time in one room, avoiding everybody. Toward the end he became so nervous that he was unable to swallow. Lt. Garlington said he died of pneumonia. Others ascribed his death to melancholia and congestion of the brain. It appears there was no sign of a suicide. thanks for the post, I knew this story and I was wondering what could cause Weir's death and whatever the "bienpensants" think in this board (bienpensants who all come from the years when the most amazing plots happened without any answer by citizens), the questions have to be asked. Historians ask questions and then begin their study. Studying history means asking questions. Shall we think that Weir died by liver sickness ?
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