Washita

["Hunk" Papa]

You're right Mel, there is a pile of misinformation out there and at times, some quite deliberate disinformation. Every LBH documentary I have seen and I have most of them on tape, begin by painting a picture of the Grant Administration having to launch the 1876 Campaign in order to force recalcitrant Indians back to their reservations. No mention of wanting the Black Hills, riding roughshod over the 1868 Treaty or that the Indians in question had never ben on a reservation.
It is that kind of manipulation that makes it so difficult for beginners to understand what is true and what is not. It happens world wide and many people in the U.K. for example, have a picture of the Battle of Agincourt that accords more with Shakespeare's 'Henry V' and the Laurence Olivier movie it spawned, than the actual mud bath slog it really was. So keep up the good work cleaning up those wikis. Generations will sing your praises - well I will anyway.
I had seen the Tom Berenger movie and realised the Cheyenne were supposed to be refugees from Sand Creek, but felt it should have been made as an episode of 'Star Trek'!

Hunk

[Diane Merkel]

Perhaps we need a Movie Review section as well!

[yksin]

admin said:

Perhaps we need a Movie Review section as well!

Terrific idea! Or perhaps more widely, a section about fictional representations -- movies, books, stories?

-- Mel

[yksin]

grichard said:

It happens world wide and many people in the U.K. for example, have a picture of the Battle of Agincourt that accords more with Shakespeare's 'Henry V' and the Laurence Olivier movie it spawned, than the actual mud bath slog it really was.

I liked the Kenneth Branagh version better myself. Which, however, while a bit more mud-bath-sloggy than Olivier's version, still was grounded in the same not completely accurate background of whys & wherefores.

So keep up the good work cleaning up those wikis. Generations will sing your praises - well I will anyway.
I had seen the Tom Berenger movie and realised the Cheyenne were supposed to be refugees from Sand Creek, but felt it should have been made as an episode of 'Star Trek'!

And one of the less believable episodes, at that. They did do a nice job with costuming, however.

CSS (who we know as Custerwest) made a brief appearance on Wikipedia today, to repost his blogsite as an external link on the Battle of the Little Bighorn article. An admin quickly removed it as COI (conflict of interest) linkspam.

-- Mel

["Hunk" Papa]

Mel, you're right, the Branagh version was more realistic, flawed as you say, but then Shakespeare's history always is. As to the Berenger movie - 'Beam me up Scottie'
BTW have you read the booklet "The Eyes of the Sleepers" by Peter Harrison, published by the English Westerners' Society in 1997. It covers Cheyenne Accounts of the Washita attack and might have some value for your wiki.
Diane, does 'three movies and a turkey' ring any bells?

Hunk

[George Armstrong Custer]

brokensword said:

Cruise's character was based very loosely on Fredrick Townsend Ward, an American mercenary active in China's Taipei Rebellion between 1851 and 1864.

Correct, brokensword. And Ward, an alcoholic in reality, was in the shadow in China of the British Major (later Major General) Charles George Gordon, who famously met his end facing down the Mahdi's forces at Khartoum in 1885. Gordon was a character every bit as enigmatic and fascinating as Custer.

ciao,
GAC

[BrokenSword]

GAC-

As a 'character', Gordon perhaps held nothing on Ward. Ward came on the scene in China about 1860/61? Offering his services to the Emperor at a time when the Taipei rebels had won most everything, Ward agreed to be paid only for his victories. He secured modern weapons and equipment for the army and trained them in Western style drill. Victory after victory followed to the point that he became legendary among the Chinese. Ward took a wife from among the Chinese aristocracy. The first (I think) Westerner to be made a Mandarian and the first and only? (I believe again) to be buried in the sacred Garden of Budda. His memory and grave site were highly venerated by the Chinese until the Communist take over at which time his tomb was completely destroyed by the new government.

Gordon got the fame but it was Ward that built the modern Chinese army.

But - I bet you already knew that.

M

[Diane Merkel]

grichard said:

Diane, does 'three movies and a turkey' ring any bells?

No . . . [she answered gingerly] should it?

["Hunk" Papa]

Oh Goddess, have you forgotten the NL of December 2005 so soon? Think 'Fictional Images on the Greasy Grass' - (sigh - how quickly they forget). I am not sure what the etiquette is on the question of forgiveness for a lapse by a divinity, perhaps a year of slightly less grovelling for the worshiper concerned? I await your ruling from on high.

Hunk

[Scout]

Movie section? Great, put me down to review 'Custer of the West'....

[bubbabod]

Murdurers on death row should be required to watch "Custer of the West" once a day as additional punishment. They'd probably be dropping their appeals and take the needle rather than have to watch that.

[harpskiddie]

Good review, Bubba.

Gordie,
I demand my right to stand, I'll not die upon my knees - and you can go out in the hall, and you can write that on the wall..................................

["Hunk" Papa]

Bubba - they wouldn't need to watch the whole movie, just be subjected to an endless loop of THAT song. Altogether now,

If you want to be a soldier,
Join the Seventh Cavalry,
Learn to fight with General Cust............Aaaargh, I've lost the will to live

Hunk

[markland]

CSS (who we know as Custerwest) made a brief appearance on Wikipedia today, to repost his blogsite as an external link on the Battle of the Little Bighorn article. An admin quickly removed it as COI (conflict of interest) linkspam.

-- Mel

*sigh* He has made an appearance, along with Sven, in my email box. David is bent out of shape because Sven took advantage of the fact that David sends out his Custerwest.org updates to individual email addresses, not a distribution list, and did a "reply-all" in which he proceeds to beat CSS's Washita stance over the head. David in reply is accusing Sven of "spamming" and urging the recipients to block Sven's email address. Then a respected and well-known author does a "reply-all" in which he tells David that Sven was harsh in calling David "intellectually dishonest" and then goes on to make the point that he has no patience with those who cannot discuss things in a "collegial" manner (which latter view I whole-heartedly endorse.)

Stay tuned for Act IV of The Third Battle of the Washita.

Billy

[Diane Merkel]

I'm still trying to figure out why I'm on that e-mail list. . . .