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Post by bubbabod on Aug 7, 2007 0:32:25 GMT -6
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Post by bubbabod on Aug 7, 2007 0:41:27 GMT -6
I haven't posted pictures in a couple years, so I'm just messing around seeing if I can remember how to do it: Crazy Woman Crossing
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Post by bubbabod on Aug 7, 2007 0:51:57 GMT -6
Still testing: At Reno Crossing:
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Post by Diane Merkel on Aug 7, 2007 8:38:18 GMT -6
You passed the test! ;D Great photos, as always.
Reno Crossing looks so peaceful now, it's hard to picture what it must have been like on THE day.
Please refresh my memory. I remember visiting Crazy Woman Crossing years ago on a CBHMA bus tour, but I don't remember its significance.
Diane
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Aug 7, 2007 14:15:45 GMT -6
Post by shatonska on Aug 7, 2007 14:15:45 GMT -6
Please refresh my memory. I remember visiting Crazy Woman Crossing years ago on a CBHMA bus tour, but I don't remember its significance. Diane americanindian.net/2003n.htmlprobably this , during the red cloud's war troups were following the bozeman trail from and to the forts builded along the road
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Aug 7, 2007 19:37:26 GMT -6
Post by bubbabod on Aug 7, 2007 19:37:26 GMT -6
Diane, When the army said they were going to build their three forts to protect the Bozeman Trail for the settlers and especially the men heading to the gold mines in Montana, Red Cloud told them that if anyone crossed north of I think Ft. Reno, or Crazy Woman Crossing, they'd die. There were numerous skirmishes fought at or near Crazy Woman Crossing. In Dee Brown's "Fetterman Massacre," Fred Chiaventone's "Moon of Bitter Cold," and Terry C. Johnston's "Sioux Dawn," they describe the attack on the Templeton wagon train where Lt. Daniel's and a sgt. were killed in an attack. It took place here. If you go there, there is a marker for Lt. Daniels and a description of the battle.. This is also where history missed its greatest opportunity for an actual photo to be taken of an acatual Indian attack in progress. Glover Ridgeway was a photographer traveling with Templeton. He was setting up his camera preparing to take pictures of the attack. Templeton or someone else told him, "If you're going to shot anything, pick up a rifle and shoot Indians." SO history missed a great opportunity. Ridgeway is also the photographer who took many photos of Ft. Phil Kearny and the surrounding area while he was there. He often went alone up into the Bighorn Mountains for days at a time taking pictures . He was on his way back to the fort along the woodcutting trail, he was asked if he wanted to ride back with the wood trainescort. He said "no." His scalped and mutilated body was found a couple miles from the fort later that day or the next. Again, no one knows what happened to his photos or glass plates he took of Ft. Phil Kearny and the surrounding area. What a tragedy. Along the same lines, an officer, Alexander Wishart, at the fort wrote to his wife that he was sending her a picture of the fort, as well as a picture of Ft. CF Smith. I've spent hours online trying to find his descendants to see if any of these pictures have survived, and some relative has them collecting dust in their attic. I talked to Sonny Reisch of the Ft. Phil Keanry association, and he thinks maybe he was referring to a drawing type picture instead of a photograph, but who knows? What was the original question???
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Aug 7, 2007 22:13:43 GMT -6
Post by Diane Merkel on Aug 7, 2007 22:13:43 GMT -6
Thanks to you both -- very interesting.
Now, before Bubba shoots me, I realize that I was thinking of a different place because this one apparently is nowhere near LBH.
OK, CBHMA-ers, go back about 10 years and remember the bus trip. I think Tom Heski was leading the tour, but it may have been Rich Fox, and they took us to a "Crazy Woman" place near LBH that (if I remember correctly) Bruce Trinque had identified as a potential crossing or other significant site in the LBH battle.
Somebody please tell me this rings a bell!
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Aug 7, 2007 23:38:24 GMT -6
Post by bubbabod on Aug 7, 2007 23:38:24 GMT -6
Diane, Crazy Woman Crossing is way out in the boonies northeast of Buffalo, Wy. The place you're thinking about was in about 2004, Bruce Trinque and the infamous Fishing Woman Ravine hoax perpetrated upon him by some woman. Poor Bruce put himself out there in front of all in attendance, including Neil Mangum. Here's a picture or two from that day: Bruce Trinque at FWR:
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Aug 8, 2007 21:52:03 GMT -6
Post by Diane Merkel on Aug 8, 2007 21:52:03 GMT -6
Oh, good, I'm not nuts -- not totally, anyway!
I don't think I've been on one of the bus trips since the late 1990s, so it wasn't the 2004 +/- trip, but you are correct about the name of the place, Fishing Woman. I remember thinking it was a crazy name, so perhaps that's where my confusion started. I think it was someone other than Trinque talking about the theory.
Your photo is great because I thought I remembered Fishing Woman as being around the back of the administrative area of the battlefield property. Those buildings in the distince are NPS buildings, correct?
What was the hoax?
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Aug 8, 2007 22:39:36 GMT -6
Post by bubbabod on Aug 8, 2007 22:39:36 GMT -6
Diane, the hoax was that such a place and story actually existed. As for its location, I'll have to let the picture speak for itself. You can see the cemetary in the background.
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Aug 11, 2007 19:48:43 GMT -6
Post by Diane Merkel on Aug 11, 2007 19:48:43 GMT -6
Thank you, Bubba! Steve Wilk gave me permission to post an e-mail he sent me today. Thanks, Steve! Saw the thread about the Crazy Woman crossing and fight. An interesting story involving a young 22 year old lieutenant of the 18th Infantry with a connection to the Custer story. This particular lieutenant was part of a party of 34 on their way from Ft. Sedgwick CO to Ft. Phil Kearny on 20 July 1866. An excellent account follows from Fighting Men of the Indian Wars by Bill O'neal; pg. 50-51:
....The group had originated at Fort Sedgwick, Colorado, and included five officers who had been posted to Phil Kearny. The officers took turns riding; there were only four saddle horses along with five wagons and a pair of ambulances. Early on the morning of July 20 they found a scalped, mutilated body, probably a courier who had been overtaken. About 9:00 AM Lts. Napoleon H. Daniels and George M. Templeton rode ahead to shoot what they thought were buffalo in a stand of timber. The rest of the party readied their rifles in anticipation of the hunt. But as the vehicles crossed the dry bed of Crazy Woman Creek, a volley of rifle fire and arrows rained upon them. No one was hit, and fire was returned immediately. (The young Lt. I mentioned) "...and a dozen soldiers jumped out of the wagons, and the lieutenant led a charge against the whooping Sioux. The attack drove the Indians back, and while he and his men stood off the Indians, the vehicles were driven to higher ground and arranged in a defensive corral. At that point Daniels' mount galloped back, riderless, the saddle askew, with arrows protruding from neck and flanks. Templeton raced just behind , wounded in the face and back and arrows sticking from his horse. Templeton tumbled from his saddle, gasping, 'Daniels! My God, Indians!' He was carried to a wagon and Surgeon C.M. Hines looked to his wounds. Lieutenant Alexander H. Wands, a Civil War veteran, assumed command and ordered a move to a treeless hill half a mile to the south. Wands led the way with a dozen men, while (the young lt. I mentioned) and seven riflemen fought a rearguard action. Once the hilltop was achieved the vehicles again were corralled. Rifle pits were dug outside of the corral and the animals were penned inside. A small party of braves crept unseen to a ravine near the defensive perimeter and loosed a flight of arrows. Three men were wounded, but Chaplain David White and a trooper named Fuller charged the ravine. White brandished a pepperbox; when its seven barrels all discharged at once, one Indian was killed and the others fled instantly. The afternoon passed without a full-scale assault. From time to time, however, two or three riders would gallop past, firing from beneath their ponies' necks. By late afternoon nearly half the party had been wounded and lack of water was causing great suffering. A water detail moved to the ravine cleared earlier by White and Fuller, then raced toward a nearby creek as a group of riflemen fanned out to screen them. The Indians now attacked the weakened main position where most of the defenders already had received at least minor wounds. This group, however, managed to beat off the assault. As the warriors retreated, the water detail hustled back, passing the first canteens to the two wives present, who had been serving as nurses. Several wounded men were so refreshed by the water that they left the ambulances and crawled to the rifle pits. As the sun began to drop behind the Big Horn Mountains to the west, the Indians, numbering over 150, charged twice more. Both attacks were repulsed, but a sergeant was killed and three more soldiers were severely wounded. The situation was desperate. The whites resolved that if their position were overwhelmed the wounded and women would be shot to death and the final survivors would commit suicide. Chaplain White and Private William Wallace volunteered to ride for help. Astride two of the officer's horses they galloped past the Indians and back toward Fort Reno. As darkness gathered the men in the rifle pits were dismayed to see a dust cloud approach from the northwest--more Indians, they assumed. The warriors in front of them, however, abruptly mounted and rode away. Not long afterward Jim Bridger rode up with the welcome announcement that two companies from Ft. Phil Kearny had arrived to provide relief. The next day Lt. Daniels' body was found, mutilated horribly and punctured with three bullet holes and twenty-two protruding arrows. It was decided that Wands and his party should retreat to Ft. Reno for recovery. A few miles down the trail White and Wallace appeared, leading a relief force from Reno. It would be the end of July before (the young lieutenant) and the other officers at last reported for duty at Ft. Phil Kearny. Quite a heroic stand by this small band of soldiers. Not to mention the fighting Chaplain and the two wives. I wanted to visit this battle site last year; I asked at the Gatchell Museum in Buffalo and the lady didn't exactly know how to get there. Plus I was on a timetable and didn't want to take the two hour detour off I-25. Oh, the young 22 yr. old Lieutenant? Though young, he was already a five year army veteran, enlisting in a home regiment from Ohio in 1861. He saw combat in the Virginia theatre and was even a prisoner of war for seven months. He conducted himself with cool courage at Crazy Woman; little did he know that he would fall to a Nez Perce bullet eleven yrs. later at Big Hole, 130 yrs. ago this past Friday. He was James Bradley, who later transferred to the 7th Infantry, and, as part of Gibbon's Montana Column, discovered the bloated, mutilated corpses of the Custer battalion on 27 June.
As Paul Harvey would say, "now you know the REST of the story".... Steve
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Aug 11, 2007 22:04:17 GMT -6
Post by bubbabod on Aug 11, 2007 22:04:17 GMT -6
Diane, thanks for the story by Steve. It's basically a recap of the stories told by Dee Brown, Terry C. Johnston and Frederick Chiaventone. A great story. The picture taken of CW Crossing is on the hill overlooking the creek, and Lt. Daniels' marker was there in 1997. Sometime after that and before 2001, it was moved, I think by the Hoofprints of the Past Museum in Kaycee. They have sort of a dirt cul de sac that is about half a mile southwest of the creek and prior monument and placed it there along with several signs with pictures of the hills and terrain showing how the battle progressed. To Steve, about 10 miles south of Buffalo there is an exit for a road that then turns into more of a dirt road that cuts southeast off the interstate. When it crosses the Crazy Woman, you'd look for a dirt road to the left. I think it is private property, but the ladies at the museum in Kaycee said it's okay to go to the memorial. It's only about an hour or less out of Buffalo, and if you know the history or have the accounty in hand that you posted, it's well worth the detour.
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Aug 13, 2007 12:35:39 GMT -6
Post by markland on Aug 13, 2007 12:35:39 GMT -6
I don't think Daniels, Wands, Templeton and Bradley were on their way from Sedgwick to Ft. Phil Kearny. I have to find the correct notebook but while going through the Ft. Leavenworth Post Returns looking for Keogh, I spotted those officers arriving and leaving there. I got curious and went to the Ft. Laramie Post Returns and spotted their arrival and departure from that post. Yesterday, I went through the Ft. Sedgwick Post Returns and did not spot any of those officers listed as stationed or "Casually at Post" in the returns. That is not definitive but Leavenworth to Laramie via Sedgwick is not a practicable route. The usual route would be Leavenworth, Kearny, Laramie and then on to Forts Reno, Phil Kearny or the future C. F. Smith. Company C, 2d Cavalry was stationed at Ft. Sedgwick minus Lt. Bingham who was away on detached service of some kind and never reported to Sedgwick.
Just out of curiosity, how far had the transcontinental railroad gotten in July, 1866? I don't think it had gotten to Ft. Hays at the time but if it had, that may make a Leavenworth, Hays, Sedgwick, Laramie route more feasible.
I will keep hunting for the notebook but feel that it may be easier to look up the data again than find the darned thing.
Be good,
Billy
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Aug 13, 2007 14:29:41 GMT -6
Post by bubbabod on Aug 13, 2007 14:29:41 GMT -6
Billy, I'm pretty sure they were on their way from Ft. Laramie also. They were basically following Carrington and the majority of the first column that went north to establish Ft. Phil Kearny.
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Aug 13, 2007 17:10:12 GMT -6
Post by markland on Aug 13, 2007 17:10:12 GMT -6
Billy, I'm pretty sure they were on their way from Ft. Laramie also. They were basically following Carrington and the majority of the first column that went north to establish Ft. Phil Kearny. Good, at least I know I am not alone when they say I am nuts! Happy Birthday to you! Billy
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