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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Apr 25, 2006 16:57:02 GMT -6
Great stuff Tim! And I liked your references to the old TV westerns - brought some others to mind: The Tall Man (Barry Sullivan); Branded (Chuck Connors); The High Chaperal (Cameron Mitchell); The Big Valley (Lee Majors); Alias Smith and Jones (Pete Duel/Ben Murphy); Nicholls (James Garner). Not forgetting, of course, the short-lived The Legend of Custer (Wayne Maunder).
Amonst my favorite Western movies are most of the ones already mentioned on this thread. I've never been a great Eastwood fan, but I do like Peckinpah's work very much, which moves from the elegiac 'Ride the High Country' to the violent end of 'The Wild Bunch', with the gentle humor of 'The Ballad of Cable Hogue' somewhere in between. I think the western must be the genre most suited to cinematic treatment.
Pure escapism! GAC
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Post by Tricia on Apr 25, 2006 17:03:11 GMT -6
LT--
Though I've spent a great deal of my life in AZ, I don't remember ever going to Tombstone ... but I thought that it was more deciduous in nature and less Sonoran. Seems a lot of the movie Tombstone was filmed at the Old Tucson movie studios.
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Apr 25, 2006 17:33:45 GMT -6
GAC-- I can agree somewhat with your surmisal of the power of TDWTBO ... but I have to state I think that Budweiser advert, Custer's Last Stand(the Otto Becker print) may have something to do with lighting the collective Custer conscience. Before the America of movies, there was the America of bars and taverns and general stores ... and it does seem that painting and its horrifying iconography certainly found its way into several of them. Long before Spouse had seen TDWTBO (after each screening, over the past couple of years,he shaves his mustache clean away), he had come face to face with the Budweiser print--and where was it? In a neighbor's basement bar room! Just a thought. Leyton McLean Yes, I think you've got an undisputable point there, Leyton. I looked out my copy of Dippie to check on what he said about TDWTBO being re-written from an earlier, less Custerophile point of view, and find that he also gives some interesting stats about the Anheuser-Busch saloon print. When Dippie was writing 30 years ago, he notes that some 200,000 copies of the Becker print had been distributed across the US. He quotes Robert Taft's rather sniffy comment that "it is probably safe to say that...[this print] has been viewed by a greater number of the lower-browed members of society - and by fewer art critics - than any other picture in American history.' Well, that's cultural impact if ever there was! I still think the Flynn movie too played a pretty large part in establishing Custer as a cultural icon. Here's what Dippie says re TDWTBO: "TDWTBO is unquestionably the most influential version of the Custer story ever filmed. In attempting to account for this fact, astute casting is the obvious explanation. Errol Flynn brought to his portrayal of the Boy General his own mystique as a handsome, reckless, romantic swashbuckler, chafing at restraints and forever at odds with authority. His Custer is a fusion of two men and two legends ideally matched to each other. Too, the manner in which Flynn-Custer went down to death left an indelible picture in the mind of every impressional viewer. Thus TDWTBO still marks the zenith of Custer's heroic image in the movies.......after Errol Flynn's Last Stand there was really nothing more to say on the subject." Where I think Dippie really cuts to the heart of the matter of identifying the magic ingredient of TDWTBO is that idea of the film showing a fusion on screen of two equally larger than life legends which were so complementary to each other - that of Errol Flynn with Custer. On the original script, Dippie notes that this was co-authored by Aeneas MacKenzie and Wally Kleine and had been 'critical of Custer.' And 'it did not ignore the Washita battle, as the finished movie did, and it blamed the Last Stand on Custer's 'greed for glory.' But with war raging in Europe and patriotic ardor on the rise in the States, Warner's chose to paint Custer in pristine hues with, MacKenzie sardonically observed, 'an eye more to generosity than to fact.' " It's fascinating to imagine Flynn playing the role as it was originally conceived - though I'm glad we have the totally inaccurate but great film that was actually made. As they said in 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance' - when the facts clash with the legend, print the legend! Regards, GAC
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Post by pjsolla on Apr 25, 2006 17:34:12 GMT -6
Leyton, your right. Tombstone was filmed at Old Tucson Studios. Alas, several years ago, the studio suffered a major fire. Destroyed a lot of it. While much has been rebuilt, it's still a far cry from what it was. Either way, it's worth the visit.
Tombstone? Most definitely. I have been to Tombstone and OTS and both are exciting to see.
Tombstone is exciting in the sense that you walk down the same street as the Earps did and you can get caught up in it mentally. The streets are open. No vehicular traffic. So, you get the feel of it. Storefronts are, I believe, facades, but you get the feel of the old west.
Lawtonka gave a pretty accurate account. Again, go see it. You won't regret it.
And OTS gives you the feel of an old western town. They filmed a ton of movies here. A ton. And many John Wayne movies were filmed here. It's fun to watch those movies and then see all the scenes that were filmed there.
PJS
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Post by Lawtonka on Apr 25, 2006 17:37:40 GMT -6
Hey Leyton and GAC,
Tombstone is pretty much as desert as it gets, mesquite trees, rocks, and cottonwoods.
When I was there last time, I met a married couple who was working in a couple of the stores. Their son worked at Old Tucson as a stuntman and the Father does the same when the movies come to town.
He told me the majority of Tombstone was shot at Mescal. This is a remote, and at the time pretty much unknown western movie set that was not open to the public until long after Tombstone was filmed.
Some of Tombstone was filmed at Old Tucson, but most of it was at Mescal. I think the set is owned by Old Tucson Studios. From what I understand, it is now open to the public for fours.,
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Post by El Crab on Apr 25, 2006 17:49:48 GMT -6
I always enjoyed this little exchange from Get Shorty (a great movie in its own right):
Bo Catlett: You broke into my house, and I have a witness to it.
Chili Palmer: What?
Bo Catlett: Only this time it ain't no John Wayne and Dean Martin shooting bad guys in "El Dorado."
Chili Palmer: That was "Rio Bravo." Robert Mitchum played the drunk in "El Dorado." Dean Martin played the drunk in "Rio Bravo." Basically, it was the same part. Now John Wayne, he did the same in both. He played John Wayne.
Bo Catlett: Man, I can't wait for you to be dead.
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Post by pjsolla on Apr 25, 2006 18:57:30 GMT -6
Lawtonka: When I was at Old Tucson Studios several years ago, the guide had informed us that the bulk of the exterior scenes were filmed at OTS. He mentioned that Mescal was a short drive away but that it was essentially in disrepair and that you were welcome to go visit it, but no toilet facilities or concession stands were available. He said they hoped to have it up and running in a year or so.
I can't say where the bulk of the exterior scenes were shot, but the guide mentioned otherwise. Not disputing you, just letting you know what was told to us.
PJS
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Post by Tricia on Apr 25, 2006 19:22:01 GMT -6
PJ and LT--
Went to Old Tucson several times in the 1970s. I could recognise that landscape anywheres!
LMC
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Post by Lawtonka on Apr 25, 2006 19:23:35 GMT -6
Hey guys, click here www.geocities.com/usscout2003/timanddeb.htmand see my web page on Old Tucson. I was fortunate to have visited the place twice before the fire. Like you said, it is still worth going to see, but we sure lost a lot of movie history including the soundstage and wardrobe that was purchased from MGM. The first part of the street from the main entrance was about all that survived, but they did a great job rebuilding. I have been back once since the fire.
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Post by pjsolla on Apr 25, 2006 19:35:53 GMT -6
Lawtonka: Hey, nice job on those pics of Old Tucson Studios and Tombstone.
Really enjoyed seeing OTS again.
PJS
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Post by bubbabod on Apr 25, 2006 19:40:35 GMT -6
Lawtonka, although I've been to Tombstone, I've never been to Old Tucson, even though I've driven through Tucson about 40 times. I really enjoyed your pictures of Old Tucson. Thanks. PS: I tried to go to your Indian War site, but couldn't. Under construction? ? Can't wait to see all of it.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 25, 2006 20:19:06 GMT -6
* * * We pause now for an important message from our sponsor. * * * If you would like to make a few people stationed in Afghanistan have a nicer day, I've posted a message on the LBHA Member Services board about a group of people who would love to receive DVDs of old movies. Diane * * * We now return to our regularly scheduled program. * * *
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Post by fred on Apr 25, 2006 21:50:40 GMT -6
I am glad you guys like Tombstone & Old Tucson. I thought I would try Dodge City. I would show you some pictures, but my camera refused to sully its lens on such a dump. If there was any history left there, it is buried in Aceldama. They should spell it Dodge S--tty.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by Tricia on Apr 26, 2006 8:52:40 GMT -6
Fred--
Did you get to any Pueblos? I know they're just down the block from Dodge ...
Regards, Leyton McLean
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