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Post by pjsolla on Apr 25, 2006 12:35:28 GMT -6
Kilmers best role. Barring none!!!!
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Post by Tricia on Apr 25, 2006 12:55:45 GMT -6
Absolutely, PJ. He was just amazing and stole the movie right from under Kurt Russell's nose.
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 25, 2006 12:56:28 GMT -6
Don't forget his portrayal of Jim Morrison in THE DOORS.
Light my Fire!
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Post by El Crab on Apr 25, 2006 12:57:31 GMT -6
I hear Kilmer is exceptional in Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang, but I have not seen it yet.
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Post by pjsolla on Apr 25, 2006 13:20:13 GMT -6
Yes, Kilmer has put in numerous performances and done well in all, i.e. Top Gun, The Doors, etc. However, this role of Doc Holiday in Tombstone was his crowning glory. You can watch the movie 100 times and never get tired of watching him.
The producer/director of the movie stated that Kilmer put in a magnificant performance, but he'd NEVER work with him again!!
I have seen numerous Doc Holidays in many movies. Nobody even comes close!! And I gotta say, Kurt Russell's Wyatt Earp is probably one of the better Earps your gonna see, if not the best!
Sadly, many of these performers never see those once in a lifetime roles again.
In closing, when Kilmer and Johnny Ringo started talking Latin in the Saloon, while gambling, they said it became an extemperaneous shot. They said everybody, totally in awe, just stood there while they went back and forth in Latin. And EVERYBODY meant extras, producers, directors, etc. They said a round of applause went up when the scene ended.
And now, back to the General.
PJS
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 25, 2006 13:24:54 GMT -6
Others who have portrayed Doc Holiday:
Victor Mature (MY DARLING CLEMENTINE) excellent movie . . . but highly romantized view of the participants
Kirk Douglas (GUNFIGHT AT THE OK CORRAL) another good movie with Burt Lancaster as Earp, fairly hard-hitting
I believe Kevin Costnar did a movie on Earp/Holiday/OK Corral, but can't remember the name or who played Doc . . . I think that movie bombed.
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Post by pjsolla on Apr 25, 2006 14:03:10 GMT -6
Yup, the movie was called "Wyatt Earp," starred Costner and Doc Holiday was played by Dennis Quaid.
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Post by shatonska on Apr 25, 2006 14:31:09 GMT -6
in cheyenne autumn Stewart is wyatt earp and Arthur Kennedy is Doc Holliday
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Post by El Crab on Apr 25, 2006 14:41:35 GMT -6
The producer/director of the movie stated that Kilmer put in a magnificant performance, but he'd NEVER work with him again!! Kilmer, while very talented, is apparently difficult to work with. It is the opinion of some that this has cost him over his career. A very, very capable actor, though. Good work in Spartan and Heat as well. Wyatt Earp bombed because Costner has been ripped incessantly. I think a lot of it comes from Dances With Wolves and the uber-success it was. His first time directing, and he wins just about every award and makes a fortune. And even before his big-budget duds were doomed by the press before they were even released, Dances With Wolves was in the same boat. People dubbed it Kevin's Gate, since it was overbudget and taking longer than expected. But he got the money together, put up a lot of his own cash, and he's a very rich man because of it. I've seen Waterworld, Wyatt Earp and The Postman. While not instant classics, they certainly didn't warrant the bashing and labels of bombs before they were even finished. Again, you have to wonder how much his instant directorial success had to do with the subsequent Costner-bashing. |
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Post by pjsolla on Apr 25, 2006 15:12:42 GMT -6
Wyatt Earp with Costner was not a bad movie at all. I enjoyed it.
Trouble was that it was released around the same time as Tombstone. Sorta spelled instant death for Costner. It didn't deserve that.
And Scotts right, Costner has been ripped unfairly. But, critics have been known to do that.
Anyhow, I can safely say that Tombstone and Wyatt Earp were two good movies.
PJS
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Apr 25, 2006 15:14:34 GMT -6
Some of my favorite movies are the ones from the 30s-40s-50s. They were MOVIES . . . a means to escape . . . not to reinforce all the troubles and even horrors of daily life. I do watch the current movies and many are quite good but if I had to pick I'll take the old movies when they had REAL stars. As for TDWTBO . . . Flynn was the best Custer, not for accuracy but the why most pro-Custer people would want their Custer. Even I think Flynn was perfect for the part. And the screen relationship between between GAC & Libbie was outstanding, especially the scene when Custer goes off to the LBH . . . I need a hanky! Crzhrs - yes, you've hit the nail on the head re TDWTBO - Flynn's persona made that movie. I think that the place of Custer in popular culture owes a huge debt to that film. Sure, he would still be written about in the historiography of the Western Military Frontier, but if TDWTBO had never been made I wonder if he would loom so large a figure in the public consciousness? Once he came to the fore as Errol Flynn, Custer's never been away from the consciousness of the general public - even if they don't know the first damned fact of his life! Ciao, GAC |
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 25, 2006 15:17:55 GMT -6
And I see of course the photo of Errol Flynn as GAC . . . great photo. Flynn was a stud, no matter what role he played . . . but his Custer was THE BEST for those who want Custer to be dashing, handsome, honorable, a loving husband, etc.
PS: The original script was far more accurate and hard-hitting, but the US had just entered WW II and the producers wanted something more "patriotic" and mythical . . . so we got the excellent but highly fictitious version of Custer.
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Apr 25, 2006 15:24:52 GMT -6
You're right - I recall reading (possibly Dippie?) that the original script for TDWTBO included the Washita, and was not drafted as a whitewash of Custer. The idea that the change of tenor was for propaganda purposes (bringing the nation together and making it feel good about its history) in '41 makes sense.
Ciao,
GAC
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Post by Tricia on Apr 25, 2006 16:34:44 GMT -6
GAC--
I can agree somewhat with your surmisal of the power of TDWTBO ... but I have to state I think that Budweiser advert, Custer's Last Stand(the Otto Becker print) may have something to do with lighting the collective Custer conscience. Before the America of movies, there was the America of bars and taverns and general stores ... and it does seem that painting and its horrifying iconography certainly found its way into several of them. Long before Spouse had seen TDWTBO (after each screening, over the past couple of years,he shaves his mustache clean away), he had come face to face with the Budweiser print--and where was it? In a neighbor's basement bar room!
Just a thought.
Leyton McLean
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Post by Lawtonka on Apr 25, 2006 16:39:12 GMT -6
  Image Hosting by PicTigerI have got to get a copy of the Flynn movie. You guys are right, these are some good movies. I don't get the classic channels, but I do get TVLand, and if I am not watching Discover, TLC, A&E, I am most likely watching TV Land.
I love the old Warner Bros westersn like Cheyenne, Lawman, Sugarfoot and I guess my altime favorite has got to be Gunsmoke!
As for Tombstone and Wyatt Earp -- Liked them both, but I think Tombstone wins for me. Costner did a great job and you are right, the releaes were to close togehter. I think Wyatt Earp is a good Biography, but Tombstone has got to be the most accurate in chain of events and gunfight portrayal.
Tombstone is another one of my favorite vacation spots. Been there about 4 times over the years. I took the pics above during the re-enactment of the gunfight performed in the OK Coral (although the fight took place behind it on Fremont Street} The gunfighers are member of the Wild Bunch. There is one builing left there that is virtually untouched since the 1880's an that is the Birdcage theatre.
The town historian Ben Traywick, has retired as a gunfighter in the group and used to play Wyatt Earp. He is a retired chemical engineer from East Tennesse. Nice Guy.
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