U.S. Army Organizational Questions

[markland]

Diane, if this is in the wrong location, feel free to move it to the appropriate spot.

OK, now for my question. Doing this extraction of officers of the 7th, I notice that many had left the 7th for duty in the volunteer regiments formed during the Spanish-American War. My question is, are those officers still considered a member of their regular Army regiment and the volunteer service is classified as detached duty? Here is an example from Heitman.

"Nicholson, William John. D C.
D C. 2 It 7 cav 15 Aug 1876; 1 It 16 Jan
1884; capt 27 Aug 1896; maj chief ord off
vols 18 July 1898; hon dischd from vols
13 Mar 1899; tr to 12 cav 13 Apr 1901."

To me, there are two interpretations of the above. One is that he, after mustering out from the volunteer service, reported back to the 7th. The other interpretation is that he remained a Capt. in the regular Army but was unassigned to a regiment and awaiting assignment to one.


Thanks in advance,

Billy

[Steve Wilk]

Markland, I've wondered about this myself. This practice of officers leaving to accept volunteer commissions was of course common during the Civil War as well. Were they just granted leaves of absence from the regular army to command volunteers or state regiments? I don't understand how the army allowed so many officers to leave the ranks like that. I can understand the Civil War, which was not a declared war. But the war with Spain was a declared war; I would think the army would want to retain its officer corps.

Can anyone shed light on this?

[John Mackintosh]

Does anyone have a copy of Edward Coffman's THE OLD ARMY: A PORTRAIT OF THE AMERICAN ARMY IN PEACETIME, 1784-1898. An excellent book for its depth of detail, that would probably tell us.

I suspect these officers were on detached service since who better to command volunteer recruits. That probably meant that the regular regiments were operating with less officers than they normally would be considering that the army in the late 1800s averaged around 20,000 to 25,000 men, that would be the best way train and command so many volunteer regiments coming in with qualified officers.

[markland]

John, your reply, "I suspect these officers were on detached service since who better to command volunteer recruits..." seems to be the closest to fact. I got antsy after doing the honey-DO's this morning and drove over to Leavenworth to look at the regimental returns for that period. They show Nicholson on Detached Service since June (21st I think). The proof of the pudding however was stumbling upon the return which listed Allyn Capron as a 7th Cav. officer Killed in Action in Cuba and showed him as an alteration (loss) to the commissioned officers. Capron had joined the Volunteer service 1898/05/10 per Heitman.

Another indicator is Michael Sheridan. The majority of the time of his service in the 7th, or at least the few months I looked, he is listed on detached service as aide-de-camp to Gen. Sheridan (finally caught the original mistake and edited). Of course, with the losses his company had in '67 from desertion.....

What a beautiful Kansas night....mid 60's, not a bug in the air, no humidity! The nights don't get much better than that here folks!

Best of wishes,

Billy

P.S. I am on the "S" surnames, specifically Michael Sheridan, then the proofing starts...*groan*

[Lawtonka]

I can say, from knowing my fathers own experience that during his 20 career in the US Army from 1950- 1970 (a vet from Korea and Viet Nam) that he was transfered and attached several times over the years. This is not uncommon at all. Although he maintained he MOS in Artillery, he was eventually serving as section chief of Radar with an artillery unit. Among all of this, I a proud to be able to say that he even served a tour in Korea (after the war) with the 7th Cavalry. He has always told me that the offical greeting in his unit was "Garyowen" and the officers wore the black moder version of the campain hat with the gold tassles, etc. AND, they even had a trumpeter!

Of course the army has gone numerous reorganizations over the years and especially here in the last twenty years. My son was a 1 Lt. in the SC Army National Guard and in eight years he was in the 1st Infantry Division, 3rd Infantry Division, the 18th Airborne Corps, and finally part of the 2nd Armored Division out of Fort Hood, Texas. In his enlisted experience he was in a Bradley unit. As a commissioned officer, he served with the Signal Corps.

I think it is common for officers to transfer into Head Quarters positions also, where they take on completely different administrative rolls from thier normal duties.

Oh well, maybe this fits somewhat into this conversation? Anyway, this is some things from my own expeiences from being a military brat, father of an NG officer, and a forme Marine.

[John Mackintosh]

This are some interesting answers. Tim, I had no idea your Dad served in the 7th, that is really neat.

Markland uses a good example of an officer on detached service, Sherian. My favorite, probably because I can't pronounce his name, was Capt. John Tourtellotte, captain of G Troop who went on detached service as Sherman's aide-de-camp, starting in 1870. While he had that "cushion" job, G Troop lost its 1st Lt. and a number of troopers at the LBH, leaving Wallace in command of a troop that should have had a captain. Capt. T. stayed in that spot until 1884, total of 14 years! He and Sherman must have gotten along well, I imagine, at least I hope so.

[Lawtonka]

Yeah, John......When I took my Dad to the LBH in 2003, we also toured the Black Hills and while at Fort Meade, he picked himself up as set of crossed sabers and said, "I always wanted a set of these to go in my display case of medals" So now he has a set of 7th Cavarly Corssed Sabers of his own. He told me that the trip to Montana and the Dakotas was the best he ever took. We even went over to Big Hole and walked up the hill to where the mountain howitzer sits overlooking Chief Joseph's encampment, needless to say he was impressed with the story of how the little gun was put into used there and how the Indians overran the position and dismantled the gun. By the time we got back home all he could say was, "we sure did the Indians wrong, didn't we"

[John Mackintosh]

Tim,

That's great, glad he has some 7th Cav items, he sure deserves them having served in the regiment. The Big Hole Battlefield is somewhere I have always wanted to go but have never made it. Sounds like it is well worth the trip.

John