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Post by elisabeth on Apr 18, 2007 3:44:29 GMT -6
I may be wrong, as this is going back many years ... but in the Observer's Book of Horses and Ponies that I had as a child, I'm almost sure there was a French breed that was curly-coated. Began with a "P", I think. (Can't find it in any current list of horse breeds, however.)
If so, could it have come over with the French via Canada?
P.S. Apparently there were substantial numbers of Russian traders and trappers in the Aleutian islands by the 1790s. Conceivably, they could have had Bashkirs that somehow made it to mainland Alaska and beyond by 1801?
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Post by Banned on Apr 18, 2007 12:27:38 GMT -6
I asked Mister Ferguson for the pics before I put them, Damn it !! I put the pics again - and sorry for Diane Merkel's Baathist Party. Kenneth Ferguson Fine Art www.kennethfergusonfineart.comKenneth Ferguson <kaf1861@cox.net> Sent : Wednesday, April 11, 2007 3:30 PM To : "Le site du General George A. Custer" <custer_lesite@hotmail.com> Subject : Re: Custer's painting
Hello David, I see that there is already one of my paintings of Custer being used on your website -- this is an older painting and I'm not sure how you came across the image. There is also a more recent painting of Custer titled Faded Glory, which is currently on my web site. As far as your inquiry, I'm not sure which painting you're referring to but I am fine with your use of either image on the website as long as you indicate my name and provide a link to my website. Sincerely, Ken Ferguson Kenneth Ferguson Fine Art www.kennethfergusonfineart.com
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Post by clw on Apr 19, 2007 7:34:42 GMT -6
Speaking of work titled "Faded Glory", one of my favorites by Alfred L. Jones........
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Post by Montana Bab on Apr 20, 2007 21:42:06 GMT -6
Elizabeth,
I would love to know something of the French curley-coated breed you write about. In my research, I've never run across any information on that.
The info on the Russians in the Aleutian Islands is appreciated. I love it when I find new information to add to my compiled files on horse breeds. (New clues). It's such a hugh undertaking and there are so many breeds world-wide, I don't think I'll ever be done.
Bab
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Post by Montana Bab on Apr 20, 2007 21:54:05 GMT -6
Clw,
I like that painting a lot. I really go for the unusual and very creative as well as realism. I guess that is what makes art so wonderful, it's personal to people in different ways. I've noticed that many of the Indian artists of today are very creative and have their own style. I have many favorites. Bab
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Post by elisabeth on Apr 21, 2007 5:40:22 GMT -6
Bab,
Well, I've just tracked down a copy of the book in the edition I would have had (it went through infinite reprints and updates) and it should be arriving in "2 to 4 days". So before long we'll find out whether I've been fantasising or not!
I also have a memory of some deeply weird horse in there, from Hungary or similar, with dreadlocks. Can't wait to find out what that was.
It'll be a real nostalgia trip to have the book again. One's so foolish in one's early adulthood, throwing out childhood books on the basis that "I'm too grown-up for that" ...
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Post by d o harris on Apr 21, 2007 9:24:27 GMT -6
Percheron?
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Post by elisabeth on Apr 21, 2007 11:38:56 GMT -6
Good try, but no ... they have a normal smooth coat. Nice horses. (My great-uncle had one on his farm; he was a real gentleman. [The horse, not my great-uncle!] A huge dapple-grey called Captain. The first horse I ever "rode": there's a photo of me, aged three, on his back, looking like a mere pimple on this horse-mountain that must have been 17 hands high at least. But as gentle as a lamb. Lovely animal.) Either I've imagined the whole thing (which is possible: I've got a vivid mental picture of the page it was on, but that's no guarantee of reality) or it may be some eccentric little breed that's ceased to exist in the half-century or so since the book was published. I'm pinning my hopes, and claims to sanity, on the latter -- but at this point I wouldn't like to bet on it. Incidentally -- Bab, you'll like this -- in the course of attempting to Google "old French horse breeds" today, I came across this site: www.cherrycreekcanadians.ca/history.htmwhich makes a pretty good case for Morgans being descended from the Canadian horse. From all they say about temperament etc., it sounds rather reasonable. (I think -- but I'm no horse expert.) Terrific-looking breed, don't you think? Not especially beautiful, but useful, and that's a form of beauty in itself.
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Post by Montana Bab on Apr 21, 2007 18:10:10 GMT -6
Elizabeth,
Thanks so much for the wonderful site on Canadian Horses. Yes, they are one of my favorites, I've always been partial to black horses. Tough little horses, they are.
But the breeding of the Morgan goes back to Justin Morgan who was foaled in 1789. There are several theories to the origin, but the one most accepted is that his sire was a bay thoroughbred stallion named ''True Briton' (you'll love this) who was stolen from a British Revolutionary War officer. Justin Morgan's dam was a Connecticut-born mare tracing to imported thoroughbred and Arabian blood. Little Justin Morgan was so prolific as a sire that every one of his foals were the spitting image of him (alone) including all of his speed, endurance, and brute force.
I cannot wait to hear what you find in the book of your childhood! I have let my research go for awhile while I have been researching LBH, but I am always searching with an open mind. Could the horse you were thinking of be a POITOU (or Poitevin) ? It is a French draft breed, and although it does not have curley body hair, its legs are covered with long wavy hair from the knees down, (called 'feather'). The breed is used mainly for the mares who are used to produce mules, if you can believe that! Bab
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Post by elisabeth on Apr 21, 2007 22:58:09 GMT -6
Nice stuff, Bab.
Yes, I wondered about Poitou. But I'm not sure that's it ... Will just have to wait for the book, and hope I haven't dreamt it!
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Post by elisabeth on Apr 25, 2007 4:35:45 GMT -6
Well, seems I did. The book arrived this morning -- and is completely devoid of curly-coated horses, of any kind.
So -- my profoundest apologies for the pointless digression, and for getting all our hopes up! Guess we'll have to fall back on the Bashkirs-from-the-Aleutians theory after all ...
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Post by Montana Bab on Apr 25, 2007 21:31:29 GMT -6
Thanks anyway, Elizabeth, sorry we didn't succeed in finding a new link to the Curley.
Did you have any luck with the horse with the 'dreadlocks'?
Some of the breeds from around the world are downright strange. There's two breeds in particular from India whose ears touch each other at the tips! Otherwise, they are beautiful.
I won't get started on horse breeds. It's a subject I love and do get carried away. Bab
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Post by Montana Bab on Apr 25, 2007 21:38:57 GMT -6
Michael, This one's for you. I ran across this site by accident while looking for something else. I thought of you right away. There was a poster on this site who discussed "The Dead at the Top of Custer Hill". I think you will find it very interesting in your endeaver to create your master piece. You may already know most of this (I'm sure you do) but it was new to me! The web site is: boards.historychannel.com/index.jspa Click on WARS Click on INDIAN WARS click on THE DEAD AT THE TOP OF CUSTER HILL The poster calls himself "General 76" Bab
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Post by BrokenSword on Apr 26, 2007 6:50:59 GMT -6
Bab-
Thank you for thinking of me of all people. I HAD found that site some time ago and have read through most of it. I apologize for not putting the link here somewhere for those who were unaware of it. A number of the posters' names there are the same as those here and I thought it was I who was the last to know. On the grapevine, I'm usually grape #574 or somewhere way down the vine. Lots of the same discussions/fights go on there as do here. I call that site ‘Reno/Benteen Hill’ and this one ‘Last Stand Hill.’
How is your portrait of ole Gen'l George coming? Hope you are still working on it. I would like to see some results. Would you be opposed to posting some pictures of it as you progress? Some painters are rather neurotic about showing a piece before its completion and some are not. Either way you feel comfortable is fine with me.
I think I’ve decided on the right expressions for George, Tom and Cooke. That, “OH! S_ _T!” moment is what I’m after without going as far as the surprised Rodney Dangerfield look- I promise to be nice and not do that. The trick will be to paint their portraits so that they aren’t just copies of existing photos and are yet still recognizable. The portrait from photo method often leaves the appearance of a head pasted onto one of the figures in the painting, as well as the look of someone who isn’t altogether ‘involved.’ Shan pulled it off pretty well, one needn’t search to find Custer and the other main characters and they do not have that pasted on appearance. They appear to be a part of what’s going on.
Anyway, my ‘canvas’ is primed and ready and I need to start painting soon to catch up with you and everyone else. Time to stop talking about it and to just do it.
Michael
P.S. And of course including my 'secret historical ingredient'
M
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Post by Montana Bab on Apr 26, 2007 7:53:45 GMT -6
M,
That 'secret ingredient' has me intrigued, but then that is what makes art so interesting; that little chunk of individuality that you have to add to make a painting happen. Whether people accept it or not is not of consequence; when I look at something I've created and consider 'done' still makes me 'feel' the same as I did creating it. (I think there's a little bit of insanity in art. You have to be insane to think you are good enough to create something viable.)
As for my Custer 'idea', I've set it aside for only a little bit, because I decided I need to work off some of the animosity I feel toward the man. I thought I could pull it off, but havn't had anything worthwhile happen. I still think though, that if I had the idea in the first place, that something will come of it.
As you said, I don't want a copy of someone else's attempt. I want it to be personal to me, but not just some scratch on a pallet. It has to mean something. I have a habit of making everything harder than it has to be, and I guess I'm doing that again. But for the life of me, I can't capture what I want to portray in the man, and I guess it's because I've never let myself really KNOW him.
Maybe I need a shrink??
Bab
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