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Post by Tricia on Dec 20, 2005 19:43:36 GMT -5
My first book was "Custer's Luck" by Edgar Stewart. But my favorite was "Cavalier in Buckskin" by Utley. El Crab I didn't notice the Utley book on your list. If you haven't read it you should! Cathy-- I have to agree with Crzhrs ... "Cavalier in Buckskin" is absolutely brilliant and wonderfully concise. It still doesn't quite replace "Glory Hunter" as my favourite, but it's a close second. Finally bought "Generals in Bronze!" Unfortunately, it probably won't be here until next year. Heard from one of Santa's elves I am getting "GA Custer: His Life And Times," for Christmas, but it won't be re-printed until late spring!  Regards, Leyton McLean |
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Post by El Crab on Dec 30, 2005 6:56:45 GMT -5
My first book was "Custer's Luck" by Edgar Stewart. But my favorite was "Cavalier in Buckskin" by Utley. El Crab I didn't notice the Utley book on your list. If you haven't read it you should! That's because I've never read it.  I am way behind. I started reading about this about the 4th grade, and it has been an obsession since. But two things were lost upon me as I grew older (and more able to engross myself in the subject): 1: I own a car, and the battlefield is only 990 miles away. 2: I have a credit card, and all the books I never could read because they were in other libraries in faraway places (read: 20 miles away) were suddenly at my fingertips. Both thoughts coincided, and I was suddenly reminded that when I was young, the local library listed Fox's books, among others, as available at other locations. When I started getting involved in boards such as this, I weaseled my way into a trip to the field with Fox. Suddenly, I realized I should probably read his books first, and I remembered those days of pining for a trip to a different library. And along with the thoughts of all the time and all the money I've spent on other endeavours instead of packing up the Honda and rocketing across the Rockies, I realized I could have had these books in my hands a long time ago. Instead of relying on various locations of Barnes & Noble and Borders to have them in stock. Which is odd, because I had already been buying things on eBay like a madman for some time. So anyway, Utley's books are on my list to buy. And as an aside, let me tell you that its nice to have Powell's Books in Oregon. I live 3 min away from one location, and can call up this number and ask for any book they have at any store or warehouse to be sent to that store. And in a few days, I have my book. I picked up Windolph and Stands In Timber and two more of Hardorff's books that way. Utley's next, if they got 'em... |
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Post by El Crab on Dec 30, 2005 7:00:10 GMT -5
And wonders never cease. Powell's has a used paperback copy of Cavalier in Buckskin for 7.88, and its sitting at the location right by my residence. I don't even have to have it transferred.
I'll be reading it tomorrow night...
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Post by fred on Dec 30, 2005 9:33:07 GMT -5
Hey, my friends!!!
What do you guys seriously think of Utley? I find him a peripheral player on the LBH, & one who keeps changing his opinion. I also find some of his research questionable (maybe "opinions" is a better word than "research"). Am I wrong?
I might also begin to place the famous British historian, John Keegan, into that "questionable" category after reading some of his stuff. (I guess I'll hear from Elisabeth about that!)
Gently, boys & gals, gently. I'm a very sensitive guy!
Best wishes & a happy new year to all,
Fred.
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Post by alfuso on Dec 30, 2005 11:42:32 GMT -5
Utley is very good at distilling everyone else's research, clarifying it.
alfuso
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Post by fred on Dec 30, 2005 12:45:59 GMT -5
alfuso--
That's an interesting point & not a problem as far as I'M concerned. Every note I'VE taken is from someone else's work. Is there any ORIGINAL research left to be done on this topic or do we ALL just interpret the work of others? If there IS work still to be done, then where? C'mon, you've been an editor, you've had your own LBH letter, what still needs to be done, alfuso? Where do you go to find it?
Best wishes, Kiddo, for a happy new year.
Fred.
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Post by crzhrs on Dec 30, 2005 14:10:03 GMT -5
Fred:
Utley may be one of those with an open mind. He like many here have changed their views when a new book or other piece of evidence shows up and brings up a different angle to what happened. That is one of the most important things when studying anything. Keep an open mind and if the new info proves true then don't be stubborn and try to deny it.
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Post by fred on Dec 30, 2005 16:03:05 GMT -5
Crzhrs--
I agree w/ that philosophy. Nobody has changed their mind more than me when it comes to this battle, so that part of it I fully understand. It's just that I SEEM to recall some god-awful slop coming under his name. I can't recall specifics; it's just that my mind equates "stupid statements" w/ Bob Utley. I would like that to be wrong & so far, both you & alfuso are saying I am wrong. That's good.
I really got down on Stephen Ambrose before he died & I think Doris Kearns Goodwin is something of a fraud. Maybe I feel the way I do because at one time I liked both. Ambrose wrote-- to me-- the best book ever written on Dwight Eisenhower (unfortunately I don't have it any more; if you can believe it, I lost it in a divorce!), but his later stuff was boiler-plate & his lack of proper attribution really steamed me (sorry!). Keegan falls into a similar category.
Anyway, thanks. I will start reassessing my opinions of Utley.
Happy new year, crzhrs.
Fred.
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Post by alfuso on Dec 30, 2005 23:27:37 GMT -5
Fred
I have an expanded version of Cavalier in Buckskin. Even better than the original book, with Utley's up-dated views. It's a coffee-table type book with lots more pictures.
I wasn't putting Utley down. He's very good at distilling others which clarifies them and helps the reader see things in a clearer light.
alfuso
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Post by Diane Merkel on Dec 31, 2005 1:57:45 GMT -5
Ambrose wrote-- to me-- the best book ever written on Dwight Eisenhower (unfortunately I don't have it any more; if you can believe it, I lost it in a divorce!) . . . . Fred -- Only you could lose Eisenhower in a divorce! ;D |
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Post by fred on Dec 31, 2005 7:05:19 GMT -5
Diane--
Yeah, but I still have my Shannon Garst books! Unbelievable, isn't it?
Alfuso--
I understand & I appreciate your point about Utley. Believe me when I tell you, both you & Crzhrs have already made me think more highly of him. In the past, I have questioned the seriousness of his scholarship, but I also believe scholarship can be of many forms & you have pointed out a good one. I have done a tremendous amount of work on this LBH stuff, but I'm always questioning myself because everything I have is from others. It's a similar distillation process. I have my plans-- Diane knows a little of them-- & all my hundreds-of-pages of note-taking form part of those plans. My concern, however, is that I'm on my fat duff, in my den, with my books & my video tapes, & nothing I have done-- or am presently doing-- is new & wonderful. That ways on me. I at least want to be able to contribute something, however small. YOU already have; so has Diane. It's not for any "name"; that's never interested me; but this battle, this event, this conundrum DOES interest me. What I fear is that all I have done is just so much junk. By explaining how you view Utley's work, you have actually made me understand my own a little better & you have put Utley's in a new perspective for me. I can now begin to appreciate his work a bit better. Again, I have no problem w/ people changing their minds
Thanks for your help alfuso.
Fred.
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Post by fred on Dec 31, 2005 7:21:18 GMT -5
And you know something else, alfuso...? If it's for your own personal satisfaction, then it never is a waste, is it?
Fred.
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Post by alfuso on Dec 31, 2005 8:36:39 GMT -5
Fred
what age constitutes a geezer?
I'm 59.
But I have always been a history fanatic. Starting with the GRAY GHOST TV series in 1957 which put me onto the Civil War.
TONKA got me interested in Custer (and 3 yeras ago I finally got to send a fan letter to Britt Lomand, the actor who played Custer in that film. I told him I was a Custer historian and it was all his fault. He was so tickled!)
Buying B OOKS is never a waste.
alfuso
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Post by fred on Dec 31, 2005 9:57:49 GMT -5
alfuso--
65. And I agree w/ your comment about books. They have always been a big weakness of mine, though I have to tell you, I'm not as catholic in my reading as I should be. I am much more narrow-focused.
So you see... you're still a youngster.
Best wishes & happy new year, alfuso.
Fred.
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Post by markland on Dec 31, 2005 10:46:06 GMT -5
Damme, I feel like a spring chicken here!
Strangely enough, I haven't read anything by Utley on the LBH beyond the National Park Service booklet he reworked. To me, Utley's monument will always be the two books about the U.S. Army on the frontier: Frontiersmen in Blue and Frontier Regulars. With those two books as a base for study, anything is possible.
Happy New Year,
Billy
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