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Post by Tricia on Mar 7, 2006 17:10:17 GMT -6
All--
Okay, I've finally gotten to the last few pages of Welch's manuscript. What do you all think of this book? Granted, it's probably not the greatest example of a history of LBH, but I do think the author does a fine job of capturing the mistrust both sides had for each other in the Indian Wars ... and how that mistrust still seems to ooze, just below the radar.
Is the battlefield still a negative place for the Native American? It certainly seems as if the culture is changing ....
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by crzhrs on Mar 7, 2006 17:37:10 GMT -6
Welch's book was the basis of LAST STAND AT LBH (PBS) but without the modern days parts to it. The documentary and book had testimony from descendants of survivors on both sides. It was fascinating to see Charles Windolph's daughter saying her father told her: "Custer was for Custer" and Johnson Holy Rock tell the story about his father's (a young boy at the time) experience during the battle, plus fantastic film footage of Two Moons, and especially Libbie Custer in old age.
Not a "true" Battle of the LBH book but somewhat like SOMS with all the sidebars and tidbits of info that brings all the characters and participants to life. I liked it and would recommend it. Some might find it pro-Indian, but it's always good to get the Indian side of the story after so many books gave the white's side.
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Post by alfuso on Mar 7, 2006 18:46:22 GMT -6
czhrs
I enjoyed how Welsh kept taking these runnign starts at Custer to try to bash him, then pulled back at the last. Usually ended up reluctantly praising GAC, I foun that curious.
The book is much better than the documentary which managed to take a Grerat Adventure and turn it into snore.
alfuso
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Post by Treasuredude on Mar 7, 2006 21:29:37 GMT -6
I bought the book without looking at it. I was a bit disappointed basically because I thought it was about the battle and it really isn't.
I liked the documentary. Seeing Two Moons and Libbie Custer on film drives home the fact that these events didn't happen all that long ago.
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Post by chocolabguy on Mar 29, 2006 21:43:15 GMT -6
I thought Welch's book was excellent, and I was disappointed with the documentary as well. I have loaned my copy of the book to a couple of friends and told them to rent/watch the documentary first, then read the book. The book left me hoping to see more in the film than what was there.
MK
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Post by crzhrs on Mar 30, 2006 10:17:48 GMT -6
The book was used as a reference for the PBS documentary LAST STAND AT LBH. The book is not a LBH book per se, includes many contemporary views by Indian descendants, and an excellent interview with Charles Windolph's daughter (not deceased)
I enjoyed the book . . . but it's not for LBH purists looking for info regarding the battle.
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Post by custerstillstands on Mar 30, 2006 10:40:49 GMT -6
Of course you enjoyed the book !!
There is more disinformation in this book that you could probably think of (and I am sure you have a huge imagination)!
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Post by Tricia on Mar 30, 2006 11:53:34 GMT -6
I'm guessing the biggest piece of disinformation according to the Swiss delegation was Windolph's statement: Custer was for Custer ... well, that and that little reference to the Marias River Massacre ...
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Post by crzhrs on Mar 30, 2006 12:32:44 GMT -6
CSS:
Again the sarcasm . . . is that all you got? I suppose when you have no answers the best you can do is be insulting, sarcastic, and childish.
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Post by Treasuredude on Mar 30, 2006 13:14:54 GMT -6
I'm guessing the biggest piece of disinformation according to the Swiss delegation was Windolph's statement: Custer was for Custer ... well, that and that little reference to the Marias River Massacre ... My reply doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand ( Killing Custer) but more about Windolph. Windolph was a Benteen man. Benteen was his company commander and the man who would eventually promote him to sergeant. That his comments were anti-Custer doesn't really surprise me.
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Post by crzhrs on Mar 30, 2006 13:19:10 GMT -6
Leyton:
Wasn't Windolph from Switzerland?
'Dude:
I didn't know Windolph was in Benteen's company. Any comments by him (pro/con) regarding Benteen?
I've read a few comments by him in some books regarding his experience on Reno Hill, but nothing about his feelings for Custer or Benteen.
Can you share a few?
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Post by Tricia on Mar 30, 2006 13:46:36 GMT -6
Crzhrs--
OHHHHH NOOOO! But seriously, you'd think there'd be a little more respect for any author who calls Benteen's actions a "betrayal." I'm not sure if that is the exact term Welch used to describe the captain's methods at LBH--he might have used "deliberate" instead--but I'd be thinking this book would garner a hallowed place in the Swiss delegation's hearts. I borrowed the book from the library and have since returned it, so I can't look up the exact page, but that part of the narrative quite surprised me.
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by crzhrs on Mar 30, 2006 14:07:26 GMT -6
Leyton:
I have both the hard cover and soft cover of the book . . . I bought the soft cover and someone gave me the hardcover.
Can't think off the top of my hard whether Windolph was Swiss, but I know he was an immigrant. However, the book is somewhat like SOMS . . . jumping all over the place and giving lots of little tid bits of info about BOTH sides with an emphasis on the Indians' point of view.
Not sure about the Benteen betrayal part . . . doesn't ring any bells . . . but I'll go over it and see what's in there. Still, I like the book and recommend it to get another point of view.
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Post by Tricia on Mar 30, 2006 14:28:53 GMT -6
Crzhrs:
The Seventh's muster rolls show Windolph to have been born in Bergen, Germany. As for the referral to Benteen, it's near the beginning of the book, in the midst of a paragraph. After reading about the Marias River Massacre, Welch's judgment of Benteen's actions was the next thing that truly made me take notice. I was really surprised by how so many Custerphiles bash this book when it clearly damns Benteen and Reno!
Regards, LMC
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Post by crzhrs on Mar 30, 2006 14:33:31 GMT -6
Leyton:
Ok . . . thanks. I knew Windolph was from Northern Europe. I guess the Swiss and Germans are somewhat alike, except the Swiss don't start wars! (that's a joke, folks)
I think when Welch did the interview with Windolph's daughter they found her somewhere in South Dakota . . . I believe there is a large German population there, with many of them the descendants of German immigrants . . . maybe from the time of Charles Windolph.
For some any book that defends Indians has to be inaccurate.
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