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Post by andrew on Jan 30, 2008 11:07:12 GMT -6
Cante Ptan or CANTE-PTAN-YAN, Turning Heart, b. 1840 Sans Arc (Cheyenne River Agency 1889, 49 year old)
It would be desirable to find out about Turning Heart more.
Andrew
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Post by brock on Jan 31, 2008 21:40:01 GMT -6
Andrew,
Cante Ptan actually means Otter Heart or Heart of an Otter (Cante=Heart pronounced shan'-tay and Ptan=Otter pronounced pa'-taun). On the other hand the phrase Ptan Yan means to "Rock Back & Forth". So if it's Cante Ptan you're looking for it means something entirely different than Cante Ptan Yan. Don't know him but maybe a proper translation might help or at least a variation if you're looking for him by his Lakota name. I would suggest you look using ALL the variations. Consistency was not necessarily the norm among name translations. It could help if you knew his wife or children's names as it would give you an additional option to tie any of your man's name variations to the family member names who might have lived in the same household or tipi over the years.
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Post by andrew on Feb 1, 2008 20:48:26 GMT -6
Thank, Brock
In 1889 Census Cheyenne River Agency adult males were given Lakota and English names Cante Ptan and his son, Bob Canite Ptan or Bite Turning Heart, his x mark 23 years old, Sans Arc.
Silas Afraid of Enemy has translated name Cante Ptanyan as Turning Heart for H. Scudder Mekeel, one of the previous keepers of sacred Calf Pipe.
Probably his descendant is the person interesting for me.
In Census 1886 (Cheyenne River Agency) family Turning Heart is given:
Turning Heart MALE 46 years old *
Bob MALE 20 years (John Turning Heart, Son)
Good Horse FEMALE 45 years (Strange Horse or Rebeca Turning Heart, wife)
Kills FEMALE 11 years
Brings FEMALE 13 years
Feeds FEMALE 3 years
White Girl FEMALE 1 month
Noble MALE 14 years
* Belle, his mother.
It is everything, that I know about him.
Andrew
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Post by brock on Feb 2, 2008 21:53:21 GMT -6
Andrew,
I will do some checking with my sources. Give me a few days.
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Post by brock on Feb 4, 2008 16:41:53 GMT -6
Andrew,
Here's what I was able to gleam. Doug War Eagle of the Clown family knew who he was and said the closest descendants are the Dog Eagles on Cheyenne River Rez. He said Turning Heart died in the 1930s and was part of the elder council that pledged to protect the Sacred calf pipe. He was never a keeper or part of the keepers family. He was indeed Sans Arc. He wasn't able to offer anything more and said any further info would have to come from the family. The best bet if you want better info is to contact the Dog Eagle family on Cheyenne River yourself. Bring a twist of tobacco and good food for a feast with no conditions other than the fact that they are the descendants of Turning Heart who you would like to know. Be patient. If they invite you to ceremony (sweat) than by all means do so. The true story is not likely to come out first meeting.
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