old man afraid

[karl]

i would like to know when old man afraid of his horse died.
is there any information about his father?
i know young man afraid died in the summer (?) of 1893.
but on his grave the year of death is 1900.
died old man afraid that year?r.hardorff states that he lived from
1802-1887.

[grahamew]

Try: freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mikestevens/SURNAMES/i0011568.htm#i11568

freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~mikestevens/SURNAMES/i0008938.htm#i8938

Hardorff gives YMA's birthdate as 1835 and his death as 1899; on the other hand, in Jensen's edition of the Ricker notes (the Indian testimony volume) in what is suspiciously similar phrasing, the date of death is given as 1893.

Here's a photo of the two together), though the date is given around 1890/91 on the South Dakota Historical Society site (http://www.sdhistory.org/arc/arc_most.htm)




Here's a message on another web page with; the info is about YMA but there is a reference to OMA living in 1888:


www.legendsofamerica.com/bulletinboard/viewtopic.php?p=107

[kingsleybray]

Old Man Afraid of His Horse died in 1889 at Pine Ridge. The Pine Ridge censuses for 1887 and 1888 indicate that he was born in or about 1808. According to his own statement, made at Red Cloud Agency in 1874, he was the third in direct line to bear the name. Generational dead reckoning indicates that his father was born about 1780, his paternal grandfather about 1755.

According to a statement by He Dog (to Scudder Mekeel, 1931: precis in George E. Hyde papers, Kingsley Bray collection) the "first Old Man Afraid" belonged to the Kuhinyan band of the Oglala tribe. He Dog further identified this tiyospaye as a sub-band of the larger Kiyaksa band. Hyde interpreted this statement to refer to the father of 'Old' Man Afraid, although given the latter's own statement it might refer to his grandfather.

The family is identified with the Hunkpatila band of Oglalas during the adulthood of Old Man Afraid of His Horse. His oldest son and namesake was born into that band (ca. 1836), a kinsman named Yellow Eagle was identified as the Hunkpatila chief in 1839 (by Joseph Nicollet), and Old Man Afraid was rated the chief of the band in an 1867 tabulation. The band split over its stance toward the USA - repeatedly after 1866, but finally in 1871 when the Man Afraid segment settled permanently at Red Cloud Agency. It then became regularly known as the Payabya band. The non-treaty faction retained the Hunkpatila name, and remained in the Powder River country, led by such headmen as Little Hawk, Worm, Yellow Eagle (III?), and most famously Crazy Horse.

Kingsley Bray

[eamonn]

it may be of interest to know that the person to whom you refer was in fact called Tashunka Kokipa and in the lakota language actually translates as horse afraid with the lakota meaning 'Afraid for his Horses'. He always insisted that his young warriors treat their horses with their utmost consideration. He was known to the whites as Old man to distinguish him from his son. Therefore teh father was Man Afraid for his Horses whilst his son was Young Man Afraid for his horses. He died on Pine Ridge Agency and is buried in district number 4 otherwise known as payabaya (Wakpamni district)

[crzhrs]

I thought it was OF his Horse . . . meaning he was such a fearsome warrior his enemies were even afraid of his horses.

[eamonn]

I have also heard that interpretation also but I have been assured by his descendants (who I had the great opportunity to meet at Pine Ridge) that this was white man's interpretaion. I would also refer you to a book entitled I would also refer you to a book entitled 'Lakota trail' by kaare vassenden.

[clw]

Yes, Horse. The actual translation is 'They are Afraid of His Horses' meaning he was such a great warrior his enemies were even afraid of his horses.

koki'pa - to fear, be afraid of, not for

[eamonn]

Just going by what I was told and what I read.

Thanks

[Dietmar]

Afraid of His Horses memorial stone marks history, wacipi celebration


Left to right; Henry Old Horn, Melvina Winters, and Chief Oliver Red Cloud with the stone that memorializes Afraid of His Horses and Matt and Nellie Two Bulls. Photo by Sandra White Shield


By Sandra White Shield
Special to the Times

OGLALA - Nellie Two Bulls long wanted a memorial to her ancestor, Afraid of His Horses. Her children completed her wish on July 14th near her home in Oglala.
Two Bulls's daughters Melvina Winters, Cheril Between Lodges and Linda Two Bulls held a memorial stone setting ceremony, a meal, and a traditional wacipi to mark the occasion.

"Old Man Afraid of His Horses was Nellie's great, great grandpa" said Winters. She related how Two Bulls had started the process of the memorial before she died, giving land which is to be used for cultural events, to the Afraid of Horses Committee. There are plans for a permanent shade and perhaps lights for night pow wows.

Two Bull's friend, Ruth Ziokowski, of Crazy Horse Mountain, helped with the creation of the stone monument. The carved piece of granite comes from the Crazy Horse Monument. The front of the piece is engraved with "In Memory of Chief Old Man Afraid of His Horses, 1802 - 1887, Memorial Park, Ta Sunke Kokepapi, "Gift from Crazy Horse Memorial," Matt and Nellie Two Bulls." The back of the monument shows the drill marks made in excavating it from Crazy Horse Mountain.

Chief Oliver Red Cloud was called on to offer words encouraging families to continue in the good way of our relatives that came before us. His words said not to lose the family circles. The honor of revealing the memorial stone was shared with Henry "Sarge" Old Horn.

Old Horn recently discovered his relationship to Two Bulls because of a chance meeting with Two Bulls' granddaughter, Lynette Two Bulls. Both Nellie Two Bulls and Old Horn had known that ties existed between their geographical regions but not exactly what they were until the chance meeting happened.

The nearly 100 people who were in attendance came from as far away as Norway, Spearfish, Nebraska, Wisconsin, and Montana.

The wacipi at the Two Bulls home grounds was started 31 years ago.
It has always been viewed as a time to honor children, hunka relationships, and soldiers, said Winters.

Next year Shorty Brewer will coordinate a horseback ride in memory of Nellie Two Bulls in conjunction with her memorial.
"We can never be like mom," said Winters, "but we will carry on."
The events took place at Afraid of His Horses grounds, which is between Pine Ridge and Oglala.

from: Lakotacountrytimes.com

[grahamew]

Is this Old Man Afraid? I've seen the photo labelled as such on various websites but I don't think he looks like the man at the top of this page

[Dietmar]

I´m sure it´s not Old-Man-Afraid. I have him as Lance, a Brule Lakota... but I agree he resembles Roman Nose.

[buffaloman]

A stereoscopic view of this image on the New York Public Library web site is identified as "Roman Nose Sioux Chief".

digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/id?G90F388_001F

[grahamew]

Thanks; that's what I initially wrote before I edited my message.

[ephriam]

Yes, this is Roman Nose. The photograph was taken by James H. Hamilton at the Spotted Tail Agency in the fall of 1877, along with a number of other Indian portraits such as the famous one of Touch the Clouds. Roman Nose was part of the northern bands who left the agency that winter to join Sitting Bull in Canada. Roman Nose died in Canada, though his son, Charging Hawk, did eventually return to Cheyenne River.

ephriam

[charlie]

ROMAN NOSE: Born about 1820 in "Nige Tanka" (Big Belly) band of Sioux Minneconjou.
He was a relative of One Horn. He signed the Fort Laramie Treaty in 29 April 1868.
He was present at Little Big Horn (?).
In 9 September 1876 his village of 37 teepees was attacked by colonel Anson Mills's troops:
were killed 10 indians and chief Iron Plume (aka American Horse).
He died in Canada (when?). Indian's name: ?
Can anyone added some infos in this brief briography? Thanks.