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Post by grahamew on Oct 14, 2006 9:55:44 GMT -6
Has anyone got Nightengale’s Little Big Horn, which contains a different version of Kicking Bear’s drawing of Little Bighorn to the one above – and would you mind scanning it and posting it? I’ve never seen it and wasn’t aware another version existed until I read “Kicking Bear’s Canvas: A Warrior-Artist’s Account of the Battle of the Little Bighorn”, by Rodney G. Thomas, in Journal of the Indian Wars Vol 1, No. 1. It’s an interesting article and Thomas makes a case for the misidentification of two of the four men at the centre of the picture, claiming that Crazy Horse is really the one with the bird tied in his hair and Rain-in-the-Face (Here called “Rainy Face”) is the bonneted warrior. His logic is that the figure with the crooked lance has a lightning streak face paint (and possibly another lightning flash down his legs (or leggings); he has braided hair in batle; he wears a stuffed bird in his hair (which the author presumes is a red-backed hawk); the lance is indicative of his membership in the Crow Owners’ society; and he doesn’t wear a bonnet, whereas the figure labelled as CH does. Of course, I don’t think Thomas’ case would necessarily pass scrutiny by CSI. Accounts exist describing CH as wearing his hair loose in battle; the lance is decidedly not a Kangi Yuha lance; if you look closely at the picture of Rain-in-the Face below (Huffman, rather than the usual Barry, I think), he seems to have a line of dots of paint down his cheek. I suppose Rain was included because of his latter day notoriety as the “man who ate Tom Custer’s heart” and KB included himself out of vanity, or perhaps because Frederic Remington (at whose behest he painted it in 1898), knew he was someone the public would’ve heard of thanks to his involvement in the Ghost Dance. The picture, in the Southwest Museum in Los Angeles, has a “label” written by Irvin S. Cobb attached to it. In this, he states there is a gap next to the four central figures which was meant for a drawing of Gall, but KB wouldn’t draw him because he had affiliated himself with the whites. Oddly, there is no space, yet there is, according to Thomas, in the alternative version printed in the Nightengale book, where there are only three figures with a space between Sitting Bull and Rain. Thomas doesn’t know whether the other version is an earlier draft, as it were, and had not managed to contact Nightengale to find the picture’s location – although since this was published in 1999, things could’ve changed. He also notes that after showing the picture to several scholars, including Father Peter Powell, and staff at the Southwest Museum, they all said they hadn’t seen it before.
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Post by shatonska on Oct 14, 2006 13:41:25 GMT -6
grahamew the lance is decidedly not a Kangi Yuha lance this is a possible clue on that being Ch , i don't remember CH beeing a kangi yuha member that seems to me one of the two sacre lances of the oglalas , carried somethime by Ch in the tribal wars of that decade , as some oglala accounts say that is the man in the painting that can be Ch , but something doesn't fit , hair style , dress , so difficult to say , 50% of possibilities being him
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agnes
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by agnes on Oct 14, 2006 17:00:10 GMT -6
Hello!
According to the Hinman Interview with He Dog, Crazy Horse and his friend He Dog were selected as lance bearers of the Kangi Yuha society sometimes before 1870. But the lance of that society was straight, wrapped with fur and a stuffed skin of a crow was attached at one end.
Only three Lakota societies had crooked lance, the Wicinska, the Sotka Yuha and the Ihoka and all were fur wrapped. Althought the picture could be better, for me it seems as if the lance is cloth wrapped. Thus I think that lance isn't a society emblem, just is a coup stick.
Yours sincerely: Agnes
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Post by glenbow on Oct 16, 2006 9:37:02 GMT -6
I remember studying this drawing in a book once, although I can't remember where, and realizing that some of the dead Lakota were identified by name. Does anyone have a clear enough image of the picture to make out these names? I recall seeing a depiction of at least one of Crow King's brothers, Swift Bear or White Bull, both of whom were killed in the fight. I'm hoping that Kicking Bear's depiction of their dress and weapons might provide a clue as to their possible membership in one of the Hunkpapa warrior societies. Can anyone offer any information on this?
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Post by grahamew on Oct 16, 2006 12:07:38 GMT -6
Swift Bear is the man lying under the Crazy Horse figure (as identified on the drawing - the man with the bonnet); White Bull is the man with white shirt, waistcoast and no leggings lying to the (viewer's) right of Swift Bear, with a soldier lying almost on top of him.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 18, 2006 9:22:53 GMT -6
There are more names in the painting, but it´s hard to read them in my version:
White Eagle - on high left, black leggings, white shirt, breast plate
Dog Back (?) - above Sitting Bull, yellow leggings
Stand Up Rabbit (?) - on high left, red leggings, yellow/blue warshirt
Save Himself - below Stand Up Rabbit, green shirt, black leggings
Black White Man - below Sitting Bull, Cheyenne-style warbonnet, red leggings, black shirt
Red Face - below Swift Bear, blue/white striped shirt
Elk Standing Above - on high right, blue/white shirt, no leggings
Long Leg - on high right, green shirt, black leggings
Plenty Lodges (?) - above Kicking Bear, black shirt
Unfortunately I can not read the name of the warbonnet-wearer above the ree scout
Dietmar
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Post by grahamew on Oct 18, 2006 10:03:24 GMT -6
Yes, it's Dog Back; Plenty Lodges is Plenty Lice; Elk Standing Above is Elk Stands Alone; Bear Horn is the bonnet wearer and Lone Dog is to the right, with Long Road at top right.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 18, 2006 10:14:12 GMT -6
Thanks, Grahame!
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agnes
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by agnes on Oct 27, 2006 1:35:32 GMT -6
Dog Back is same with Dog's Back Bone, Long Leg is Lone Dog, Plenty Lodges is Plenty Lice. Hardorff thinks that Save Himself and Standing Rabbit were the nicknames of Yellow Hair and Young Skunk.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Oct 29, 2006 16:53:59 GMT -6
Grahame, In answer to your original request, below is the drawing from Nightengale (p. 140). Unfortunately, it is not in color and is not sourced. Diane
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Post by grahamew on Oct 30, 2006 11:20:06 GMT -6
Wow. Thanks, Diane. Now, this is interesting. If Thomas' identification of Crazy Horse is correct, KB hasn't even placed him in this version, but we can clearly see the gap where Gall was allegedly meant to fit. I'd love to know more about the creation of this 'draft', but, as you and Thomas say, it's not sourced - fairly poor for a historian - and while things may have changed since the article was published, it seems really odd that he couldn't get any joy out of Nightengale or his publisher as to the origin of this photo or the whereabouts of the original. Can anyone make out what seems to be covering the bonneted figure's body? It's interesting to see that Indians on foot are finishing off the soldiers, as opposed to the mounted men in the copy t the top of the page. Now if someone's got this in colour somewhere, please share...
I suppose we'll never know how it came about. Maybe Remiongton saw this version and asked KB to do another... Remington, of course, didn't even collect the finished one.
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agnes
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by agnes on Oct 30, 2006 12:29:17 GMT -6
This is great Diane! I'm also thankful for the picture.
I have a feeling that this painting probably not native made. It's quite different from the one at the Southwest Museum. Although the central figures almost the same in the two paintings, the figures around the central ones are different. Probably two persons made the Nightengale's painting, this custom was not uncommon among the Plains warrior artists. But I feel that the latter case probably isn't true, because the figures quite commonplaces if somebody worked with patterns. For example the Shoshoni Cadzi Cody made paintings for commercial sales and he worked with patterns. Also suspicious that the umbrella-like shots depicted along the three borders, what don't looks as native concept. Furthermore the source of this painting is unkown.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Oct 30, 2006 19:31:01 GMT -6
Here are two smaller ones from Nightengale, pp. 112 and 166, respectively. Perhaps they are known to you, but -- once again -- there is no attribution or source given. He just plucked down photos, illustrations, and maps wherever he wanted without explanation. I scanned the second one twice, and that's the better of the two.
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Post by grahamew on Oct 31, 2006 1:46:59 GMT -6
Yes, they're from the Red Horse series. I can't understand why a writer who, presumably, wants to be taken seriously, would do this. It's not as if the Red Horse stuff is unknown...
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agnes
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by agnes on Nov 5, 2006 17:09:38 GMT -6
Good question Graham! Why the author was unfamiliar with those famous Red Horse drawings? Probably in this way he want to conceal his doubtful Kicking Bear's work?
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