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Post by fred on Jun 25, 2020 4:59:03 GMT -6
One of the problems we have with the Indians at this battle is that no one knows for sure how many were killed.
My work shows 63 by name, plus Gall's family of two wives and three children, their names unknown, not even by those who erected the Indian memorial at the battlefield. All the names etched in stone at that site coincide with names I have gathered. We do not know how many were wounded or how many of those who were, died... other than the names we know.
Sioux and Cheyenne employed different burial techniques, the Sioux generally raising their dead on scaffolds or trees-- and they did some of that at the LBH; that was why some of the tepees were moved farther north (downstream) from their original location, thereby creating the illusion the village was actually larger than it was. The Cheyenne tended to bury their dead in caves or depressions in the ground and over the years and through all the building and farming in the area of the LBH valley-- in the direction the camp moved after the battle-- nothing has been found of burial sites. So what does reason tell us?
Richard Hardorff believes only some 32 or 35 Indians were killed at the battle, but with the various names we have collected, Hardorff's numbers seem way too low. Greg Michno is the historian/author who doubts the veracity of the term "suicide," and for some reason I tend to agree... probably because of Michno's logical presentation.
Anyway, if the so-called "suicide" boys numbered more than twenty, who were the others... if they died? No "suicide" tag was ever applied to other names... at least that we know of.
Best wishes,
Fred.
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Post by walkswounded on Jun 25, 2020 10:50:01 GMT -6
Hello Noggy - I take it you are not a Man U fan?  In my opinion, regarding the “suicide boys” (that’s a really poor term for those young warriors), what they stood for, or were willing to do is nothing less, or more than many would do when protecting hearth/home or fighting for ones country, regardless of race or country of origin. Simply being willing to sacrifice ones life that others may live is something that has occurred for millenniums, and in all probability will continue for many more, if we as a race last that long. ww |
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Post by crzhrs on Jun 25, 2020 15:01:34 GMT -6
Was Limber Bone (aka Limber Hand) one of the "suicide boys"?
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Post by fred on Jun 25, 2020 15:32:37 GMT -6
Was Limber Bone (aka Limber Hand) one of the "suicide boys"? Yes. And killed. Hope you are doing well, my old friend. Give my best to your wife. Best wishes, Fred. |
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Post by noggy on Jun 26, 2020 9:04:50 GMT -6
Hello Noggy - I take it you are not a Man U fan? In my opinion, regarding the “suicide boys” (that’s a really poor term for those young warriors), what they stood for, or were willing to do is nothing less, or more than many would do when protecting hearth/home or fighting for ones country, regardless of race or country of origin. Simply being willing to sacrifice ones life that others may live is something that has occurred for millenniums, and in all probability will continue for many more, if we as a race last that long. ww Oh, the opposite. Borderline fanatic, s it was a celebration. There are so many terms, phrases etc which don`t really can be translated to English or understood fully from out standpoint. North is South, colors are viewed differently, people had dozens of names etc etc. We just have to try to puzzle stuff together. Noggy |
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Post by walkswounded on Jun 26, 2020 9:47:47 GMT -6
That is, of course, true. Regrettably, little has ever been done here in the States to understand Indian language/culture. To this day, I don’t know if any white man/women has ever become fluent in the Cheyenne language, as a singular example. Having said that, it is a complex and difficult language, as I understand it.
ww
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Post by noggy on Jun 27, 2020 4:48:28 GMT -6
That is, of course, true. Regrettably, little has ever been done here in the States to understand Indian language/culture. To this day, I don’t know if any white man/women has ever become fluent in the Cheyenne language, as a singular example. Having said that, it is a complex and difficult language, as I understand it. ww We have a little of the same issue here, since we also have a indigenous population (the Sámi people). We never had wars but treated them poorly for a long time. In many ways similar to th US govt and the Indians, trying to eradicate their culture for a while. Today they have their own national day, own "government", tv news on their own language and stuff but I don`t really know too much about them apart from them being reindeer herders and like NAs often move around living in lavos (basically a tipi, tons of their culture and even some of their language is very similar to NAs). I should really try to better this somewhat (Their girls are also absolutely stunning, som maybe I could come of as a little cool if I could speak the language ) Noggy |
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Post by herosrest on Jun 27, 2020 8:54:25 GMT -6
A number of 'historians' took interest in the Cheyenne way including G.B. Grinnell and his wife who published a number of works, E.S. Curtis in The North American Indian, Margot Liberty, Peter J. Powell, George A. Dorsey, James Mooney, are a few more. Rev. Petter produced a dictionary. McLoughlin stated it to be a very difficult spoken language. Seek and ye' shall find. babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/ls?field1=ocr;q1=cheyenne;a=srchls;lmt=ftThe 'Suicide' analogy with Suicide Boys is poor sensationalism where in my understanding they simply commited to fight until killed which is different to doing the banzai. The object was to win fearlessly and die if that fell upon them. It did. Bravery garnered notoriety and fame which was a badge of honor to be won. Death defending family was a badge of courage. Anyone galloping at an aimed .45 cal Springfield was brave. It would take off your head. |
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Post by walkswounded on Jun 27, 2020 11:40:21 GMT -6
A number of 'historians' took interest in the Cheyenne way including G.B. Grinnell and his wife who published a number of works, E.S. Curtis in The North American Indian, Margot Liberty, Peter J. Powell, George A. Dorsey, James Mooney, are a few more. Rev. Petter produced a dictionary. McLoughlin stated it to be a very difficult spoken language. Seek and ye' shall find. babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/ls?field1=ocr;q1=cheyenne;a=srchls;lmt=ftThe 'Suicide' analogy with Suicide Boys is poor sensationalism where in my understanding they simply commited to fight until killed which is different to doing the banzai. The object was to win fearlessly and die if that fell upon them. It did. Bravery garnered notoriety and fame which was a badge of honor to be won. Death defending family was a badge of courage. Anyone galloping at an aimed .45 cal Springfield was brave. It would take off your head. An interesting link, thank you. ww |
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