How Did They Die?

[Diane Merkel]

From a website visitor:

On visiting your excellent site on a regular basis, I wondered if there is some information you could give me if possible. I have studied the American west for over 40 years and really love its history. I also do drawings and paintings of various western subjects. I would like to do a series of drawings showing how some of the troopers and officers actualy died if this is known; ie, Private J. Galvan, was he shot, killed with a arrow, etc. I realise it probably is not known how the majority of the soldiers died but is there any info on any of them? I like to do realistic drawings and all the artwork I have seen, though some is very good, do not show individual struggles. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Scout]

The black decaying condition of the corpses made it difficult to actual pin point the fatal wounds and because of the odor most were not examined that closely. Scalping and mutilations were apparent but causes of death on most are uncertain.

[crzhrs]

Agree with Scout--it would be virtually impossible to recognize the fatal blow/shot by the time the bodies were discovered.

Some, like Custer (if we are to believe the "clean" wounds) would be easy, but most would be in poor condition to be determined.

The command wanted to bury them as quickly as possible due to the stench, insects, affects of the sun/heat and get out of there.

[doyle1876]

"They had lain there for three days in the hot sun which turned the bodies black. The stench was terrible" - Sgt. Ryan
"They were covered with swarms of flies, and the odor from the decomposing bodies under the blazing sun was intolerable" - Major Reno
(Both from Hardorff 1989)

For forensics, pathology and some excellent statistics on the battle and the soldiers who fought in it, I highly recommend "They Died With Custer" - Scott, Willey & Connor. All recorded or known wounds, fatal or otherwise, are detailed in this book

[crzhrs]

Another book worth looking into is:

A SCENE OF SICKENING, GHASTLY HORROR by Francis B. Taunton.

It's more of a "booklet" but is filled with accounts of survivors who had to bury the dead, correspondence, photos, maps.

Highly recommended but graphic.

[stan]

Many thanks for the replies so far,, i have nw become a member of the site so no doubt i will be picking the brains of you experts in the months to come. Another question i would like to ask is - as an artist and big fan of most western art in many paintings i have seen all the indian warriors are depicted in full war paint including their ponies? if it was more or less a suprise attack would they have had the time to do this or just ride out to meet the 7th as they were "unpainted" not a very important question in the military sense but i am just curious,, stan...

[stan]

As to my first queston "how did they die"i should have worded it better, obviously all participants in the battle died from gunshot arrow knife wounds ect, i meant to ask does any member know of individual fights between indians and cavalry eg- who killed myles keogh? or who shot noisy walking? i know this is probably a very hard question for anyone to answer but any info on any indivdual and i would be most grateful, thanks everyone,, stan.

[stevewilk]

Stan--if anyone knows who killed who, that information is long lost. Not likely many of the warriors knew who the personal identities of those they were fighting. Still, Rain in the Face cutting out Tom Custer's heart is legend; and White Bull claimed to personally have killed George Custer. Again, likely legend but anyone who knows for certain has long been deceased.

A member of this board, Walt Cross, wrote a book on Lt. Harrington, Custer's Lost Officer. He maintains Harrington was killed by a Santee warrior. Don't have the book so I can't elaborate on which warrior.

As far war paint; artistic license. However, these were superstitious and ritualistic peoples; for example Crazy Horse was late entering the battle due to his evoking his medicine and applying his paint and totems and such. Certainly after Reno was checked many warriors may have done the same.

Which leads me to wonder; how long did they wear their warpaint? Many of these warriors were fresh off the Rosebud battle only a week earlier. Could some still have been wearing their paint from then?

[clw]

No. Contrary to popular belief, they bathed almost daily especially in summer. Sweat lodges were also frequently attended by warriors so not much chance they would have worn the same paint for a week. It's application was part of the prayer and ceremony of preparing for battle and as such there would be nothing to be gained by making it last beyond these "superstitious and ritualistic' purposes. Many traditional men still have "medicine and paint and totems and such".

[stan]

Thanks Stevewilk and clw all info gratefully noted, i will continue doing drawings of the battle and just have to use a little artistic liscence,thanks to all ,, stan.

[doyle1876]

stan said:

meant to ask does any member know of individual fights between Indians and cavalry eg- who killed Myles Keogh? or who shot noisy walking? i know this is probably a very hard question for anyone to answer but any info on any individual and i would be most grateful, thanks everyone,, stan.

"One of Keogh's wounds and two of Comanche's wounds appeared to show that Keogh was shot while mounted. Keogh's knee was shattered by gunshot. Comanche was shot through the shoulder, the bullet emerging from the chest, just where the rider's left knee would normally be. Keogh could not have remained mounted for long after the leg wound. He was killed by a bullet to the head."

The Honor of Arms - Charles L. Convis

[stan]

Doyle 1876 many thanks for the info on comanche i am just in the process of doing sketches for a painting of comanche your notes are just what i needed ,cheers ,,stan.

[clw]

stevewilk said:

. and White Bull claimed to personally have killed George Custer.

from Paul Hutton in The Custer Reader, pg 234

"A recent study of the transcripts of Campbell's interviews with White Bull by the anthropologist Raymond J. DeMallie found no evidence that White Bull ever claimed to be Custer's killer. In fact, the sketchy evidence that does appear in the transcripts points to the fact that the soldier with whom White Bull struggled was clearly not Custer. It would appear that Campbell allowed his romantic nature, and his desire to honor White Bull, to get the better of him."

[doyle1876]

stan said:

Doyle 1876 many thanks for the info on comanche i am just in the process of doing sketches for a painting of comanche your notes are just what i needed ,cheers ,,stan.

Look forward to seeing some of your work

[stan]

Thanks again doyle and clw, when the painting is finished i will post it on the site,just trying to make my mind up which angle to do the horse at? i think it had 7 wounds or so ive read so it must have been in quite a state poor thing!all info is welcome, cheers ,stan.