Company or Troop ?

[Lawtonka]

We all like the sound of Troop, but duing the time of the Little Bighorn / Big Horn......the individual groups within a regiment were designated as Companies.

I know I have read the official word of the date and when the Army officially changed the desigantion from Company to Troop.

I know someone here will know this.......Hey Billy , help me out.

I really get a kick out of Michno's frustration with this issue in his book The Mystery of E Troop He reports that Utley says the change took place in 1883, Upton says 1882, and Col. Nye says 1880 !

My favorite statement that he makes is, "Can there be nothing connected with the Little Bighorn (there is that word again ;D) that does not generate controversy?

Then he goes on to say, "A trooper is a soldier, but a soldier isn't necessarily a trooper."

Just like the reference Little Bighorn vs Little Big Horn.....We have Company vs. Troop. The funny thing is, there are tons of books that have been written refering to LBH era units as a Troop instead of Company.

Oh well, just thougt this might be interesting. I do say though, I like the word Troop or Trooper, it just sounds right and fits the Cavalry.

I think the only thing we are sure of about the Battle of the Little Bighorn / Big Horn is that we just can not know for sure about anything

[fred]

Lawtonka--

1883 is the date. (Please don't ask me to document it because I recorded it in my notes some time before I included attributions w/ those notes. 1883, however, is correct.)

In today's army, in the cavalry, "troop" is used instead of "company." "Squadron" is used instead of "battalion." "Cavalry" is-- as I am sure you know-- a misnomer. All it means is that they are fast-moving, usually lightly armed-- though there are M-1 tanks in some cav units-- & helicopter driven as well. When I was in the service (1962-1972), cavalry units were basically the same as reconnaissance units: Jeeps; the smaller APCs (I can't remember the designation; "Greenpheon" might); usually some newer, trial-version, "machte-nichts" gun carrier or tiny tank or some such "general's nonsense." They were assigned to the FEBA (forward edge of the battle area), meaning they got whacked first. In my day, they were some of the best.

Best wishes,
Fred.

[elisabeth]

I've read 1883 ... but as you say, there are many conflicting opinions. Just to confuse things further, even before the official change (whenever it was) people were using the two words interchangeably in everyday speech! One quote, off the top of my head: Keogh writes about lending Nowlan's fiancee "a riding horse out of my troop".

Maybe for once the army was bowing to popular demand with the change of name ...!

[fred]

elisabeth said:

I've read 1883 ... but as you say, there are many conflicting opinions. Just to confuse things further, even before the official change (whenever it was)...

1883.

Love ya!

Fred.

[El Crab]

I actually prefer company. I think it was Michno who wrote an explanation in his book for his interchanging company and troop. Mainly to avoid the boring use of company over and over and over. Just like I sometimes mix trooper and soldier and cavalryman. It gets to the point that you feel like you're reading an owner's manual or instructions, if you don't vary your words.

But I prefer company. And that's what they were officially called at the time, so there ya go.

[fred]

Crab--

"Company" is correct for 1876; but is it "cavalryman," "cavalry man," "cavalryMan," or "Cavalry Man"?

[George Armstrong Custer]

Fred, it's Geezers On Horses.

Regards,
GAC

[rch]

The term 'troop" was used informally and interchangeably with "company." However "squadron," before the 1880's, should not be thought of as the same thing as a "battalion." A "squadron" was two cavalry companies, usually operating as one unit, under the direction of the senior company commander. The term battalion might refer to a full ten company infantry regiment or to any collection of companies, possibly even two cavalry companies under a major.

When Custer made his report of his 1873 engagements during the Yellowstone Expedition, the report was headed "Head-quarters Battalion 7th Cavalry." The battalion in the field was apparently organized into 2 wings of 2 two company sqaudrons each.

Until early in the Civil War arttillery batteries were also called companies.

During World War II the cavalry regiments of the 1st Cavalry Division served dismounted and retained the use of the terms "troop" and "sqaudron." After the war they were formally organized as infantry and thereafter used "company" and "battalion."

It appears that today someone serving in a cavalry unit can be in an infantry or a tank company. Armored cavalry (or reconnaissance units) retain "troop" and "squadron" designations.

rch

[fred]

rch--

Beautifully done!

Best wishes,
Fred.

[AZ Ranger]

thanks rch enjoyed that.

Do you know if they called the individual cavalry soldiers a trooper when he was in the era of the term company as the designation. Would this have lead to changing company to troop?

azranger

[rch]

azranger,

"Trooper" was used during the period when "company" was the official designation. It was used in Cooke's "Tactics" at the beginning of the Civil War. I do wonder if it was used as dogmatically as it is in John Ford westerns. All cavalrymen probably felt free to refer to themselves as "troopers." Using "trooper" when rountinely speaking to or about an individual cavalry private is something I don't know enough about. I have a suspicion that it was a usuage that became more common later in the 19th century.

I thnk the change to "troop" had to do with a return to an earlier tradition. It appears that through the end of the 18th century American company sized units of cavalry were called "troops." Both "troop" and "trooper" were in use in Britain before the English Civil War. This seems to have carried over to colonial mounted militia units, the Continental Army, and the Legion of the United States. Why the change was made to "company," I don't know.

The earlier use of "troop" probably explains its persistent informal use, which, with the continuing British use, may in turn explain the official change.

rch

[AZ Ranger]

Thanks rch

azranger

[markland]

I just found this and thought it would help. From Rodenbough's Army of the United States, First Regiment of Cavalry by Capt. R. P. Page Wainwright, 1st U. S. Cavalry, p. 171:

"In October, 1881, the "Companies" began to be designated "Troops" on the Regimental Return"

With that, the next time I look at a cavalry regimental return, I can see what Army General Order was responsible for the change.

Best of wishes,

Billy