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Post by Diane Merkel on May 10, 2006 19:33:26 GMT -6
I believe this man is correct, but I thought it best to check with my experts: I have read that Felix Vinatieri and the 16 piece Seventh Cavalry Band were ordered to stay behind where the steamboat Far West was moored at the mouth of the Powder River. Is this an error re: the Powder River ? All my reading on the Far West was that it was moored at the confluence of the Rosebud and Yellowstone until Captain Marsh received orders to come up the Bighorn River until he reached the mouth of the Little Big Horn. Note that the website visitor is very diplomatic. He used both Bighorn and Big Horn!
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Post by Jim on May 10, 2006 20:58:20 GMT -6
The Far West was used to transport supplies to the Powder River Depot. When 1/2 of the 7th Cav. arrived there on June 10 (the other half was on a recon headed by Maj. Reno) it stayed at the Powder & Yellowstone River until June 15th when it took Gen. Terry upstream to link up with Gibbon.
It was at the Rosebud on the 20th of June and the "Infamous" Meeting between Terry, Gibbon & Custer occurred "onboard" the Far West on June 21st.
After Custer departed the mouth of the Rosebud on the 22nd, The Far West stayed with the Terry-Gibbon Column all the way to the mouth of the Little Big Horn(sic?). It was used to ferry the troops across the Yellowstone & Big Horn Rivers.
It remained moored at the mouth of the Little Big Horn until the wounded were loaded after the battle and then returned back to Ft. Lincoln.
However, the Far West was at the Powder River many times during it's contract with the military.
Vinatieri & his band remained at the Powder River Depot throughout the Little Big Horn campaign along with many other members of the 7th Cavalry.
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Post by fred on May 10, 2006 21:29:54 GMT -6
Maybe this will help and add to Jim's comments:
26May76—leaves Bismarck w/ supplies.
29May76—downriver from Stanley’s Stockade (Glendive).
1Jun76—10pm—arrives at Glendive under command of LT Nelson Bronson & his detachment of Co. G, 6th Inf., w/ additional supplies.
3Jun76— The “Far West” was waiting at Glendive; the “Josephine” had returned to Bismarck.
5Jun76—1:05pm—The “Far West” begins the 78-mile trip up the Yellowstone from Glendive Creek to the proposed site of Camp Supply at the Powder River confluence. On board was CPT James W. Powell, CO, C/ 6I, & supplies.
6Jun76—9:15pm—The “Far West,” w/ CPT James W. Powell’s C/ 6I, arrives at Powder River to set up new supply depot. Nighttime—The “Far West” brings the 2 couriers, Sargent & Williamson—at extra pay—5 miles further upstream w/ Terry’s dispatches to Gibbon. Heavy lightning storm w/ high winds & heavy rains that night.
7Jun76—still at confluence of Powder & Yellowstone. 10pm— Terry—22 to 24 miles up the Powder—sends out the Ree scouts, Goose & Stabbed, to the “Far West,” to advise of his location on the Powder.
8Jun76—still at Powder/ Yellowstone confluence. 8pm—Terry reaches “Far West.” Terry would travel on the “Far West” the following morning to meet Gibbon.
9Jun76—3am—Grant Marsh, the skipper of the “Far West,” orders the boilers started in preparation for the trip upriver. 4am—Terry starts up-river (the Yellowstone) on the “Far West.” 11am—Terry meets Gibbon on steamer “Far West,” upriver from the Powder. It took an hour-and-a-half for the steamer to make its way to Gibbon’s upriver camp. 12:30pm—“Far West” reaches Gibbon’s bivouac. Conference ended; reception held for officers. 1pm—“Far West” headed back downstream. 2:45pm—Tied up again at mouth of Powder River.
12Jun76—12:30pm— “Far West” leaves PRD & heads to Stanley’s Stockade for more supplies. 4pm—“Far West” reaches Glendive (Stanley’s Stockade).
13Jun76—3am—“Far West” departs Stanley’s Stockade with the last of the supplies & men. 8pm—“Far West” finally arrives (after bucking the upstream currents of the Yellowstone at an average speed of about 4.2 mph), completing the move from Stanley’s Stockade at Glendive Creek to the Powder River depot. The “Far West” would accompany the column to the Tongue River & beyond.
14Jun76—Troops move forage from “Josephine” to the “Far West.”
15Jun76—6am+ —Custer joins Terry in a conference aboard the “Far West.” 7am—Custer leaves the “Far West” & sets out to join his column. 1:30pm—Terry & B/ 6Inf begin moving up-river by steamer, “Far West,” to join Custer. 5:30pm—“Far West” breaks down after moving up-river for 15 miles.
16Jun76—2:30am—Repairs to the “Far West” are completed & she starts moving again. 12:15pm—“Far West” & Terry finally reach Custer’s camp.
17Jun76—8am— “Far West” starts out for mouth of Tongue River. Noon—“Far West” arrives, mooring near Custer’s camp.
20Jun76—9:15am—“Far West,” now loaded w/ supplies, heads up the Yellowstone to Reno’s camp. 12:30pm—Terry, on the “Far West,” arrives. Conference on board the steamer. 3:45pm—Terry starts up Yellowstone, on the steamer, to join Gibbon at mouth of the Rosebud. Takes the entire Gatling battery w/ him to spare them the rugged march up to the Rosebud. 9pm—“Far West” arrives at its mooring spot, alongside the 7th’s encampment.
21Jun76—Wednesday—6am—Gibbon, anticipating the change in Terry’s plans, sends 3 companies (H, E, & K, 7th Infantry) under CPT Freeman, up the N bank of the Yellowstone to do some roadwork & build bridges. The Big Horn confluence was some 60 miles away. 8:35am—Terry, on the “Far West,” arrives at Gibbon’s camp, immediately ordering him to send the remainder of his command up to the mouth of the Bighorn, picking up his “road-workers” along the way. 11:45am—“Far West” arrives at mouth of Rosebud to await Custer’s arrival.
22Jun76—3pm—Terry—aboard the “Far West”—dispatches 6 Rees w/ mail to PRD. He also requested that MAJ Moore send additional supplies upriver on the “Josephine.” 4pm—“Far West” leaves, heading upriver towards old Ft Pease. 8:15pm—The “Far West” moors after traveling only about 17 miles against a strong current.
23Jun76—8:40pm—The “Far West,” w/ Terry & a very sick Gibbon, ties up about 15 miles below Ft Pease.
24Jun76—Early am— Steamer “Far West” arrives at old Ft Pease. 6pm—Terry, his staff & escort leave the “Far West” & head up the Big Horn. Gibbon, still extremely sick, remains on board.
25Jun76—before 2am—“Far West” enters mouth of Big Horn River & heads upstream.
Jim is absolutely correct about the band-- along w/ more than 100 other 7th Cav members. And there were 14 members of the band, including Vinatieri, not 16. Three guys remained behind sick at FAL: Joseph Kneubuhler, Frank Lombard, & George A. Merritt.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by elisabeth on May 11, 2006 1:50:45 GMT -6
Fabulous stuff, Fred. I've printed it out for my files. Excellent.
Is this the same Powell who was at Fort Phil Kearney at the time of the Fetterman affair? (I've been assuming it is, but "assuming" isn't quite good enough!)
And ... is there any definitive source on the decision to leave the band behind? I've read some versions that say it was a combined Custer/Terry common-sense decision, and others that say Terry had to get quite stern with Custer about it. If the latter is true, it could say a lot about Custer's mindset and the Custer/Terry relationship ...
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Post by fred on May 11, 2006 6:07:24 GMT -6
Elisabeth--
As usual my dear, you are correct. Here is what I have on our boy. Unfortunately, it is not very much, for his role in the overall history of the 40-day campaign was not that significant, but, nonetheless:
3 companies of the 6th Infantry—C, D, & I—departed Fort Buford on 14May76 aboard the steamer “Josephine,” bound for Stanley’s Stockade. They reached there on 18May76. These 3 companies were moved to & remained at the Powder River Depot.
Company C (2 officers, 46 EM):
CPT James W. Powell—CO. Powell had been the officer in charge of 32 men on 2Aug67, in what became known as the Wagon Box Fight, 7 miles from Fort Phil Kearney, when an Oglala Sioux force—variously estimated as between 400 & 3,000 warriors—attacked them.
June 5, 1876—Monday—1:05pm—The “Far West” begins the 78-mile trip up the Yellowstone from Glendive Creek to the proposed site of Camp Supply at the Powder River confluence. On board was CPT James W. Powell, CO, C/ 6I, & supplies. Powell had been the officer in charge during the famous “Wagon Box Fight,” 2Aug67, against an estimated 400 to 3,000 Oglala Sioux. There were 32 defenders, near Ft Phil Kearney. (Whoops! Sorry! A little duplication there.)
June 6, 1876—9:15pm—The “Far West,” w/ CPT James W. Powell’s C/ 6I, arrives at Powder River to set up new supply depot. Nighttime— The “Far West” brings the 2 couriers, Sargent & Williamson 5 miles further upstream w/ Terry’s dispatches to Gibbon.
June 8, 1876—Terry begins preparing a major operation, based on inferences from Gibbon’s dispatches. 6am—Williamson & Sargent arrive at PRD w/ their “harrowing” story. 11am— Ree scouts, Goose & Stabbed, sent out the night before (covering 44-48 miles in about 13 hours), return w/ dispatches from CPT Powell aboard the “Far West” at Powder River junction w/ Yellowstone. One dispatch reports a war party of about 40 Sioux near the Tongue River. This was a mistake. These Indians were Crows spotted by Williamson & Sargent. Powell’s note mentions that he has seen no hint of Indians. 8pm— Terry reaches “Far West.” Terry is told by Powell of Williamson’s error in mistaking the Crows for Sioux & dispatches Herendeen w/ a message to Gibbon to remain in place wherever he was. Terry would travel on the “Far West” the following morning to meet Gibbon.
June 9, 1876—Terry orders CPT Powell to advise MAJ Moore to transport—by steamboat—the remainder of the troops (Murdock’s D/ 6I & Walker’s I/ 6I) & supplies from Stanley’s Stockade at Glendive to Powder River Depot.
And that is about it. I believe Powell remained at PRD until after the battle, though I may be mistaken about that. He loses relevance for me-- again, unfortunately-- once the action has passed that area. Sorry I am so one-minded.
Very best wishes Elisabeth, Fred.
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Post by Scout on May 11, 2006 6:10:10 GMT -6
Good stuff fred....on a previous thread we talked about the FAR WEST. It sank in the Missouri River after hitting a sandbar several years after the battle. There is a lawyer here in town who claims to have the bell from her. He has an antique story here in Memphis and sells truly unbelievable Indian wars memorabilia. Anyway, I don't know if I put any stock in the claim. I would like to find her wreckage though.
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Post by fred on May 11, 2006 6:14:01 GMT -6
Scout--
Let me know if you ever decide to try. I'll go w/ you; I'll carry the shovels. Seriously.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by Scout on May 11, 2006 6:30:55 GMT -6
fred...sounds good! Her wreckage site is known...she is of course in a million pieces and under water although when the Missouri gets low parts of her do appear. Man, would it be neat to have just a bolt or piece of wood off her!?
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Post by fred on May 11, 2006 6:35:21 GMT -6
Scout--
Like I said... name the date! Crazier things have been done.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on May 11, 2006 7:18:16 GMT -6
Fred - a superb resume of the Far West's movements; great work.
Scout - I didn't know that about parts of the wreck of the Far West's being visible on occasion; fascinating and (as you note) tempting stuff! If you and your shovel carrier ever do mount a recovery expedition be sure to video it - and put me on the list of subscribers for a copy (seriously).
BTW - does that dealer in Indian Wars memorabilia have a website Scout?
Regards, GAC
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Post by markland on May 11, 2006 7:31:28 GMT -6
Correction-per Heitman-The Capt. Powell of the Wagon Box (why not wagonbox? ) fame was James NMI Powell who retired on January 8, 1868. Here is information on the Capt. Powell which Fred refers to (from Heitman's Historical Register of the Army, vol. 1, p. 803): Powell, James William. N Y. N Y. Pvt B 7 N Y state mil 17 Apr to 3 June 1861; 1 lt 71 N Y inf 20 June 1861; hon must out 27 May 1863; 1 lt V R C 22 May 1863; capt 28 Oct 1863; bvt maj and lt col vols 13 Mar 1865 for gal and mer ser dur the war; hon must out 3 June 1866; capt 42 inf 28 July 1866; tr to 6 inf 22 Apr 1869; maj 1 Aug 1891; tr to 21 inf 16 Apr 1892; lt col 15 inf 26 Apr 1895; col 17 inf 16 Jan 1899; retd 8 Sept 1899. Fred, good itemization on the Far West's role in the support of the column! Be good, Billy
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Post by elisabeth on May 11, 2006 7:34:37 GMT -6
Thanks, Fred -- it's always nice to be able to join the dots.
Scout, that's fascinating. Please put me on the video list too!
Ah -- Billy -- was posting while you were posting. That's a most useful correction. Thanks. I was in danger of building a little edifice of connections on the basis that it was the Fort PK chap. Good to be stopped in time!
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Post by q on May 11, 2006 7:44:40 GMT -6
I really do hate to put a damper upon this fine tea party. But I think someone needs to do a bit of research before throwing your hat into the proverbial ring.
Quotes from Fred: Scout--
Let me know if you ever decide to try. I'll go w/ you; I'll carry the shovels. Seriously.
Best wishes, Fred. Scout--
Like I said... name the date! Crazier things have been done.
Best wishes, Fred.
You may want to do some better research than what had been provided for by some here. First of all I Seriously doubt that any timber from that august vessel has survived to this day. And any metal would be seriously rusted, if not entirely decomposed by this day. In either event there is questionable value to anything that is left.
Then you have this problem. Getting there.... Over the years, the Corps of Engineers has squeezed the water that used to spread all across the Missouri's floodplain into a deep and narrow channel, reducing the river's width by two-thirds. To ease barge travel, it has sliced off hairpin turns that once confounded steamboats, reducing the river's length by 127 miles. And it has managed the river to maintain a reliable nine-foot-deep barge channel at all times, eliminating the ebbs and flows and shoals and shifts that used to make navigation so treacherous and uncertain. Muddy banks that used to erode and shift by the hour were armored with unyielding rock revetments. Shallow backwaters and chutes filled with silt. Wetlands were gradually converted into farmland.
From a point of view of the Missouri's ecology, the engineering accomplishment has been an utter disaster. It has eliminated nine-tenths of the river's sandbars and islands, in which no doubt the sandbar you are referring to is now long gone! The Corps offices points out, if you would care to inquire, that, during the spring, when the river would naturally swell, the Corps is holding back water behind the upstream dams. In the summer, when the river would naturally dwindle, exposing the sandbars and islands where shorebirdsbuild nests, the Corps is releasing the extra water to float barges in their 9 foot deep barge channel.
And last, but certainly not the least is the reason for it's nickname. It is referred to as the "BIG MUDDY!" The reason. People who have tried to go underwater, like in scuba gear and such, say that you can't see your hand, even if you put it in front of your face! The river is so full of silt and sand, you couldn't even begin to salvage anything underwater, let alone surive the dive. And that's saying if ~ if the sand bar you claim it's on is even then still there.
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Post by markland on May 11, 2006 8:01:34 GMT -6
Q, boy, what a wet blanket! ;D Seriously, living here near Kansas City, I read and hear a lot about the Missouri, largely through reports on the long-standing feud between Nebraska and Missouri against Montana and other western states wanting to keep larger amounts of water from the river impounded in dams, for reasons which include recreational purposes, than the lower states consider, from their point of view, prudent for adequate water depth for navigation, irrigation and as a water supply for population use. All in all, what Q pointed out about the Corps of Engineer's work on the Missouri is correct. However, whether the remains of the Far West are still intact should be researched as there are plenty of riverboats still identifiable in and around the Missouri. Somewhere recently I read about the largest riverboat ever to have been on the Missouri which sank downriver north of St. Louis. Its boilers and structure are still visible during low-water times. Another consideration, at least on the Missouri portion of the river, is that historically the Missouri had an evil reputation for changing it's channel. Witness Weston, Missouri, once a thriving riverport. Now the river is about a mile away! Steamboats which sank in the Missouri are being dug up with backhoes in fields adjacent to the river! Check out this link for the Steamship Arabia museum here in Kansas City. www.1856.com/Let me know when you guys go....I like watching people use shovels! Billy
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Post by Jim on May 11, 2006 8:07:26 GMT -6
Q--
If you would have done your research, then you would have found that many of the packet steamers, which were wrecked, along the Missouri & Yellowstone Rivers still remain. I frequent the area around the Powder River Depot and at the Wolf Rapids there are timbers & boiler parts still exposed from some of them. That area of Montana has the perfect arid dry climate, even in the River, to preserve those Old Steam Belching ships!
Jim
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