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Post by Tricia on Nov 8, 2005 13:00:17 GMT -6
Elisabeth, see wot you 'af been doing to my President's English? Honourably yours, Billy ;D <giggles>
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Post by ma dawg got et on Nov 9, 2005 3:39:09 GMT -6
Crab
if you don't know how to use a saber on the ground or horseback, you can knock youself down with it, and get yourself knocked off your horse by wielding it wrong.
I've watched reenactors training to use it and a lot of them end up on their duffs.
alfuso
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Post by El Crab on Nov 9, 2005 10:14:32 GMT -6
Crab if you don't know how to use a saber on the ground or horseback, you can knock youself down with it, and get yourself knocked off your horse by wielding it wrong. I've watched reenactors training to use it and a lot of them end up on their duffs. alfuso Given my preference of being in control of my own destiny, I'd still prefer to have one. Sure, I might fall off my own horse (and I don't think I'd use one dismounted, a carbine would be easy to reload on foot), but I'd rather risk knocking myself off my own horse than leave that exclusively to a warrior. Its a silly discussion, and I highly doubt sabers would have made any difference. But its fun to discuss and knowing what I know, I'd sure prefer a go-to option if I find myself in the middle of an angry village and my Colt is empty...
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Post by crzhrs on Nov 9, 2005 10:53:46 GMT -6
Of course, standing around or riding a horse with only a saber in hand would be useless against a warrior with a bow-and-arrow or firearm.
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Post by Bite Me on Nov 9, 2005 12:32:16 GMT -6
It is doubtful if anyone on this board would know how to even pick up a Saber, much less keep from getting one stuck up their anus. The ignorance on weapons is most laughable, particularly by Crabbed one and Markland. You guys need to go back to school! Bite You: Better to have an anus than be one! There's a guy named Paul Cross who is a HUGE one! ;D
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Post by crzhrs on Nov 9, 2005 12:51:03 GMT -6
<It is doubtful if anyone on this board would know how to even pick up a Saber, much less keep from getting one stuck up their anus. The ignorance on weapons is most laughable, particularly by Crabbed one and Markland. You guys need to go back to school!>
Thank you Errol Flynn!
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Post by El Crab on Nov 9, 2005 18:44:17 GMT -6
It is doubtful if anyone on this board would know how to even pick up a Saber, much less keep from getting one stuck up their anus. The ignorance on weapons is most laughable, particularly by Crabbed one and Markland. You guys need to go back to school! How astute of you. I've never handled a saber, let alone a US cavalry saber of that period. Nor have I ever handled ANY firearms of any kind. You caught me in a web of lies. Well done.
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Post by Bite Me on Nov 9, 2005 19:49:01 GMT -6
Crab, et cetera: If you have never handled a saber or any other of these weapons from the 19th century as you obviously never have, in most cases here, why do you discuss something endlessly you are entirely ignorant of?
Why not buy a few antiques or replicas? Perhaps take some shooting or Kendo lessons? Think how much more you could appreciate these American historical antiques and the actual tactics and methodology that went on. Much more interesting than fantasizing and BS'ing each other!
Perhaps I am mistaken. Possibly no one here is much interested in the truth.
Of course, every time you add or subtract a issue of a weapon from a battle it makes a difference. Simple, eh what!
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Post by El Crab on Nov 9, 2005 22:05:04 GMT -6
Crab, et cetera: If you have never handled a saber or any other of these weapons from the 19th century as you obviously never have, in most cases here, why do you discuss something endlessly you are entirely ignorant of? Why not buy a few antiques or replicas? Perhaps take some shooting or Kendo lessons? Think how much more you could appreciate these American historical antiques and the actual tactics and methodology that went on. Much more interesting than fantasizing and BS'ing each other! Perhaps I am mistaken. Possibly no one here is much interested in the truth. Of course, every time you add or subtract a issue of a weapon from a battle it makes a difference. Simple, eh what! I was being sarcastic.
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Post by markland on Nov 10, 2005 0:42:41 GMT -6
It is doubtful if anyone on this board would know how to even pick up a Saber, much less keep from getting one stuck up their anus. The ignorance on weapons is most laughable, particularly by Crabbed one and Markland. You guys need to go back to school! Paulie, thank you for making our point. The majority of the U.S. Cavalry were barely able to ride a horse, much less swing a saber. Don't you remember that even GAC ended up shooting his own horse in the head when attempting to hunt from the saddle? And since i haven't read the comments directed towards me, I feel perfectly correct in ignoring them. Billy
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Post by Bite Me on Nov 10, 2005 14:05:27 GMT -6
Man, really odd replies. Crab tries to explain his lack of experience with weaponry by claiming rhetorical strategem. Markland appears infatuated with someone named Paul. There are boards for that sort of thing. Also the cavalry spent most of their time on the backs of horses. So saying "they could hardly ride a horse much less swing a saber" is a really uneducated and ignorant thing to post. Custer shooting his own horse is more related to weapons handling than horsemanship. This incident where Custer, a good horseman, was hunting miles from his column almost resulted in his death. What it points up, is the ineptitude of a man who fancied himself a great commander, but was more a fumbling glory hunter. His decision to leave his sabers, extra troops offered and Gatling Guns was all a part of trying to beat everyone to the indians and be the great hero. In reality, he executed troopers for offenses he himself perpetrated, had men tied to wagon wheels and lashed and disobeyed his orders at the LBH resulting in the massacre. What a guy. The low level of analysis in the face of so much fact is quite surprising to one like me, passing through, and observing so much ignorance. Or possibly, you gentlemen just like to argue by provoking each other.
The saber thing and Custer have been beaten to death by most readers and researchers. As is constantly pointed out, military analysts claim a possible 20 to 30% increase in indian casualties had they been present. Most authorities doubt that they would have affected the outcome significantly. Edged weapons produce a certain shock value. This could have distracted the enemy enough for Custer to retreat back toward Reno possibly. But, most studies seem to show Custer never had any interest in that type of maneuver, thus eliminating any advantage the sabers might have conferred on him. It an issue as dead as Custers horse.
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Post by El Crab on Nov 10, 2005 16:06:34 GMT -6
Rhetorical strategem, eh? It should be blatantly obvious I was being sarcastic. I own a firearm from WWII, and have handled various other firearms. I've also handled a saber, and while I'm certainly not the authority on how to cut someone in half with one from on top of a horse, I'd STILL rather have one than not if I'm told I am charging into a large village. But as I've said many a time, it wouldn't have changed anything.
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Post by ma dawg got et on Nov 11, 2005 6:37:31 GMT -6
Bite Me
well, at least you've read a book.
alfuso
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Huge Anus as defined by Diane
Guest
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Post by Huge Anus as defined by Diane on Nov 11, 2005 11:53:08 GMT -6
Well, upon reviewing Bite Me and assorted discussion I find it mildly interesting. The weapons and ammunition at the LBH has always been an interesting issue.
Sabers have been a fine weapon used in many desperate fights. Like any weapon, the degree of expertise attained is everything. Crab continues to amuse. He owns a WW2 weapon and once picked up other weapons and a saber. Dear Crab you must understand attaining the level of a manual (the book) display of competence is not the same. Also, running through the manual is not comparable to a zen master of Kendo. Nor is owning a WW2 weapon stored in your closet comparable to those of us who fire a minimum of 500 rounds high power, at varying ranges each year.
Now, you probably think I am trying to insult you or disparage your experiences, I am not. I am trying to point out to you what you must do to reach a certain level of expertise where your opinions would be valued with some respect. I am also trying to show you gaining some expertise in antique or ancient weaponry can be very satisfying.
My opinion of the Saber is well known. It could have been a valuable tool for individual survival at LBH. The nature of the very slow reloading Trapdoor and it's faulty ammunition at LBH would have made the Saber unusually valuable in this particular fight. The same slow loading is true regarding the Colt SAA. Each mounted Cavalryman was cancelled offensively after 6 shots including the rifle. Try reloading a trapdoor rifle or single action revolver on a galloping horse! This situation left many weaponless. They could quickly go from a offensive posture to one of helplessness! The possession of a Saber would have been of inestimatable value. Would it have changed the outcome? Given the disparate numbers and the disaterous tactics of continually splitting forces, very doubtful!
Had the command been armed with good repeaters, Smith and Wesson fast reloading revolvers, Sabers and the regiment kept togeather, and Custer following orders and arriving the next day in conjuction with Terry, LBH would have been a disaster of gigantic proportions for the indians. It would have been known as the Great Lakota Massacre! Possibly, Bury My Heart at Greasy Grass!
This battle was really decided by the incompetence of command. This situation has been demonstrated in many wars and battles. It is a story that begins around the time of the Assyrians and continues to the present. Vietnam is a unusual display of incompetent command, unusually well documented. Try to understand the underlying principles of war. The military is often untruthful, they sometimes issue inferior weapons, they sometimes get large numbers of young kids killed and they are often skillful in mass coverups. Often the most inferior officers are promoted to command positions. This can be the result of immorality, but is more often the result of politics. The Little Big Horn is not exempt from this ongoing parade of human frailities.
Love and kisses to all my fans!
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bhist
Full Member
Posts: 221
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Post by bhist on Nov 11, 2005 23:35:07 GMT -6
Tsk, tsk, tsk...Paul, I thought you would have grown up by now! Sabers? For crying out loud, next thing you know you will be asserting that the Spencer carbine won Gettysburg. Billy Wait, isn't this the same guy who thinks the Custer battalion, being armed as it was, MUST have killed over a thousand warriors? Yes, he is. Paul Cross (soldier, bite me, etc, etc) is a strange fellow. He haunted the AAO boards for about a year – for whatever reason was rude to every poster. However, his slander against me was the worst I’d ever experienced. He accused me of pocketing money from the Friends, which shows how ignorant the fellow really is. And watch his reaction to this post. I contacted Rich, moderator at AAO and told him that Paul’s slander was a libel case that I would win in court, but I also explained that moderators of message boards are now loosing judgments in the same courts. There have been several successful libel suits awarded against plaintiffs AND the moderator of a message board because the moderator allowed the slander to take place. Freedom of speech in America does NOT protect slander and libel. Rich realized the importance of this information -- Paul was actually doing as much damage to Rich as he was himself. So, Rich deleted every single post Paul wrote on AAO and banned him completely. It wasn’t long after Paul Cross was banned that he started haunting this forum under many different guest names. To Diane I say a big thank you for the way you’re handling the likes of Paul Cross. You have done a great job in keeping this board and its many threads a good place to visit. I know it takes a lot of your time – I’m sure there are many posters here that agree with me.
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