MindSet as they ride away from the fort

[greathunter]

I've often wondered if anyone riding away that day, ever took one last look back at all the people seeing them off, and wondered if they would ever see them again..
Or if anyone had any trepidation as they they mounted thier horse for a journey they would not come back from.
Just watched a video on youtube called battle of the little bighorn
With GarryOwen. which was basically more than likely what anyone of us would have heard had we been there june 25th 1876 with the GarryOwen song playing..
Me and another guy was discussing this, and we both came to the conclusion that the sheer terror and violence and death would have been enough to make any soldier become scared to death.
To imagine being told to form a skirmish line as a hoard of warriors
Come up through the hills and men beside you start to get shot and fall on your left and right, some from rifles, some from arrows,
And your group gets smaller, and smaller, and smaller, then your entire line is over run, and you see men. Getting thier faces smashed in
Thier heads smashed in, guys getting run through with war lances
Men jumping up and making a attempt to escape only to be chased down and shot down like a Buffalo hunt..
Sweet jesus it had to be actual hell to them.
Although i dont agree with what the u.s armys position was.
I can respect what those poor men went through that day..
It gives me the heebie jeebies
And i wonder about the Ghosts that must roam that battle field..
What was it like that afternoon?
What was it like when myles Keogh
Got shot and his me.Crowded around him to try and protect him, only to be annihilated.

[wild]

"I've often wondered if anyone riding away that day, ever took one last look back at all the people seeing them off, and wondered if they would ever see them again.."

Of course they did. They were shitting themselves with fear.
They were no fools . They knew full well that firearms and horses were a bad mix.
Think about it for a moment....it takes 8 individual movements to load and discharge the single shot carbine. And if by some miracle the trooper manages to chamber a round the chance of him hitting anything bounding along at 50 mph was infantismal.
The problem was that there was a tactical clash not spotted by the cretins who combined firearms with galloping independent horses.
The horse is for close quarters ,the fire arm for distance quarters. Together they snooker each other. They are a contradiction in weapon systems.
No don't tell me...the charge came to a grinding halt ....and while 1 in 4 troopers held the horses the others fired their single shot carbines?
The fear described above was because the 7th had practized this and saw the result. They knew that they were dead meat before they even set out.
And as for the skirmish line what a joke. Skermishers are light infantry thrown out in front of advancing formations. The line of dismounted troopers with a flank of a single trooper would be better termed a suicide line.
At The LBH the cavalry failed to charge and the skirmish lines failed to hold.
cheers

[herosrest]

^Ducemus

I would expect there to have been a buzz in the 12 companies coming together and development of identity and purpose during a very brief few weeks and with Custer absent, the senior subordinates getting on with it. Coming together and off on grand adventure with a toll of new recruits streamed out in rear and 'marching' on foot all the way to Powder River.

Regards.

The horse had been at battle for a long, long time and yes, gunfire did them damage. The same also their riders and yes..... Weapons are difficult to load mounted and stood or mobile. Fiddling or banging drums whilst mounted would be also, I imagine. Lord a'mighty that the next pop star is a mounted bass player. Ya' never knows.....

In Kelly's Heroes, there was a driver by the name 'Moriarty' and I wonder whether you sided with him or 'Oddball'. Settle down now. Settle down.

The army was in transition from ACW musketry into the world of rifled accuracy and had the Springfield System adopted in 1873 by the Small Arms Board headed by Alfred H. Terry. M.A. Reno served on behalf of the Cavalry.

The thinking, adoption and practice came about principaly from John Watts de Peyster who had published various papers on the skirmish line as battle line. He was one of the cluster officers offered generalship by Lincoln to 'get the job done'. Watts de Peyster declined the promotion and active service. Custer accepted and the rest is history.

1876 was not the first or last time a new weapon system fell short of the mark or fell over at the first hurdle. That said, the 2 mile range of the rifle is remarkable. Ehether anything could be hit and whether such long range is useful, is debate today after more recent battlefield experiences.

Reno understood there were problems with the carbines when the fighting began. 8-10 rapid rounds had weapons jamming per DeRudio. Poor fire control or whatever, that is record. Reno was first to understand he could not rely on his main weapon. He got out of there.... I do love logic, how about yourself?

[AZ Ranger]

Hi Wild

I think failed to charge correct, and the reason can be summed up in Sgt Ryan's comments. "Even Custer wouldn't fight these soldiers mounted."

Regards

AZ

[wild]

Hi AZ
Nice to see you still posting.

Good observation.
A miracle Reno actually came to close quarters and got the majority of his men out.

Best Regards
Richard

[wild]

Worth mentioning that Keogh had become very depressed melancholy and settled his affairs and bid farewell to friends .
Nor was Benteen an enthusiastic soldier and the numbers of troopers dropping out of Custer's battalion is worth noting.
And was there not an optical illusion of the 7th vanishing into the clouds as observed by those who remained behind.
And Custer;s colours toppling over in camp.
They were not happy campers
cheers

[greathunter]

Wow..such perspective guys..
Ive heard of the Death March..
But it actually happening ?

Here's a good custer movie title

"DEAD IN THE SADDLE"
THE TRAGIC STORY OF THE SEVENTH CALVERY

[noggy]

Feb 21, 2022 13:21:37 GMT -6 greathunter said:

THE TRAGIC STORY OF THE SEVENTH CALVERY

If you want to make some buzz, turn it around:
"Avoiding Tragedy: How Native warriors saved thousands of women and children at the Little Bighorn."

Should turn some heads.

Noggy

[backwater]

That's true Noggy. What were the numbers probably 4 to 1 to warriors? Astounding victory with the village intact. My mindset leaving the fort would be "here we go and I'll catch every s**t detail till we wind this up, hopefully before it gets cold". Life was tough enough back then but to ride into enemy country with a bastardized converted muzzle loader? "Saddle sores and hardtack will continue till morale improves"

[noggy]

Feb 23, 2022 16:15:54 GMT -6 backwater said:

That's true Noggy. What were the numbers probably 4 to 1 to warriors? Astounding victory with the village intact. My mindset leaving the fort would be "here we go and I'll catch every s**t detail till we wind this up, hopefully before it gets cold".

I would think so. At least. There were many young, unmarried warriors of course, but they would not be the majority. And the other warriors could have several wives and several children (Gall comes to mind) and several in-laws. Also, the age range of expected combatants was pretty narrow, 16 to mid/late 30s, even though men/boys both younger and older participated in different ways. So in a large group like this consisting of newborns to people to well past their 80s, the "warrior pool" wouldn't be the dominant one.



All the best,
Noggy

[AZ Ranger]

Feb 23, 2022 16:15:54 GMT -6 backwater said:

That's true Noggy. What were the numbers probably 4 to 1 to warriors? Astounding victory with the village intact. My mindset leaving the fort would be "here we go and I'll catch every s**t detail till we wind this up, hopefully before it gets cold". Life was tough enough back then but to ride into enemy country with a bastardized converted muzzle loader? "Saddle sores and hardtack will continue till morale improves"

Hi Backwater

I think the number was even larger but even at 4 to 1, it assumes all soldiers would be engaged at the same location. If 8-900 were against Reno in the valley that exceeds numbers that one can defend against buts into play a retrograde to fall back on the regiment.

The same applies at other locations on the battlefield. Custer fed the 7th Cavalry to the Indians a few companies at a time while allowing the Indians to increase their odds against the soldiers.

The .45-70 were not converted muzzleloaders. Some of the .50-70 were conversions.

Regards

Benteeneast

[noggy]

Mar 20, 2022 8:11:07 GMT -6 AZ Ranger said:

I think the number was even larger but even at 4 to 1, it assumes all soldiers would be engaged at the same location. If 8-900 were against Reno in the valley that exceeds numbers that one can defend against buts into play a retrograde to fall back on the regiment.

The same applies at other locations on the battlefield. Custer fed the 7th Cavalry to the Indians a few companies at a time while allowing the Indians to increase their odds against the soldiers.

This is a point I make/made in my very basic article. Just looking at the total number of Warriors vs Soldiers doesn't really really say much; as long as the vast majority of the warriors could focus on smaller segments of the 7th, one at the time, they would have massive local supremacy (this is my best attempt to translate what I wrote in Norwegian), way beyond what it looks like if you just think 650 soldiers were defeated by anywhere between 1 000 and 2 500 warriors.

Noggy
PS: Do you have any idea what happened with the Rini board?

[Yan Taylor]

What has happened to the "brown board", has it been taken down?

Ian